KVR Audio

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:12 am

tee boy wrote:One simple answer - why not just ask FXpansion is its cool to give out the loops.

Why should he? He paid good money to use the thing!

Why is everyone always so goddamned worried about the copyrights of other people?

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:16 am

Spe3D wrote:If you want to distribute samples – your best bet is to sample them yourself direct from the original instrument or ambience – or – really know for sure your license covers you to distribute samples derived from others – its not a place to take a guess.

I would take the link down and ask FXpansion as teeboy suggests – that way you will know for sure.

Here you go I will point you in the direction on where to get this clarified

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=13

Sample based products (including hardware ones) can have certain limits to what can and cannot be done with the sample content – clarify first then post is the best thing to do.

you are making no sense - say I have BFD - say I use it in a song - say I decide to program a drum-solo somewhere in the song - do you think it might be possible that FXPansion own the copyrights for this drum-solo? And suddenly, when the rest of the music kicks-in again the copyrights magically transform to be mine again?

There's nothing he has to ask for!

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:18 am

Well, I guess he shouldnt. But he seems unsure of the license agreement so might be worth checking.

Personally Id rather he posted more, as I never say no to a freebie!

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:22 am

It's fine for you to publish these loops for anyone to download, that's covered by the licence. The problem ist somewhere else - anyone using your loops in their music hasn't got a licence for BFd - and might therefore violate copyright law when publishing it.

Spe3D · Post by **Spe3D** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:23 am

jens wrote:
you are making no sense - say I have BFD - say I use it in a song - say I decide to program a drum-solo somewhere in the song - do you think it might be possible that FXPansion own the copyrights for this drum-solo? And suddenly, when the rest of the music kicks-in again the copyrights magically transform to be mine again?

There's nothing he has to ask for!

Well frankly I don’t give a toss, not my samples and I am not hosting it.

I only wrote it as it could have a consequence for either him/herself or end artist.

Its advice – and you know what they say about advice – ‘take it or leave it’

Spe3d - out

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:31 am

living sounds wrote:It's fine for you to publish these loops for anyone to download, that's covered by the licence. The problem ist somewhere else - anyone using your loops in their music hasn't got a licence for BFd - and might therefore violate copyright law when publishing it.

nope - that's as well not a problem - he created the samples so he owns the copyrights for them - and he gives them away royalty-free - so anyone can use them freely without a care - the sun is shining - isn't the world a wonderful place?

liars&ashes · Post by **liars&ashes** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:47 am

jens wrote:nope - that's as well not a problem - he created the samples so he owns the copyrights for them - and he gives them away royalty-free - so anyone can use them freely without a care - the sun is shining - isn't the world a wonderful place?

----Unfortunately, that is not correct.

Jeff

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:58 am

liars&ashes wrote:
jens wrote:nope - that's as well not a problem - he created the samples so he owns the copyrights for them - and he gives them away royalty-free - so anyone can use them freely without a care - the sun is shining - isn't the world a wonderful place?

----Unfortunately, that is not correct.

Jeff

fortunately it is - I own Cakewalk's Dimension - it comes with piano-sample programs - I can right now record some solo-piano with it (which I composed myself), render it to .wav and make a contract with you with which I give you all copyrights to this recording - that's just the same thing.

Or imagine someone using BFD for recording an album full of solo-drums - he can then transfer the copyrights for this recording to any record-company.
- That's also the same thing. If you use sampled based instruments for creating something with them the copyrights for this creation are yours - period.

If you are stating otherwise that's bad publicity for FXpansion et al because it appears as if it was a bigger problem to actually use their products than it really is.

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:04 am

Jens,

Mate, I am probably just as disillusioned with the soundware industry as you. And I to get pissed off with everyone crying over a fourty year old hi hat. So Im with you totally in one respect.

But I think you'll find that soundware is licensed to be used in musical works and not derivative soundware products (or even free distribution). You can use BFD to make tracks with, and that is fine, the track is 100% yours. But you cant redistribute the sounds, whether arranged in a loop or not. You could claim rights to the performance, but the original sample content remains properties of FXpansion.

It is quite complex, but basically the standard soundware licenses demand that the samples must be mixed with several other sounds. They are never allowed to be used in isolation, where someone else could grab them.

TB

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:40 am

so if i download these samples and use them in a track after reprocessing them, or if i sample and reprogram the individual hits, will i be infringing FXpansions copyright?

liars&ashes · Post by **liars&ashes** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:30 am

jens wrote:fortunately it is - I own Cakewalk's Dimension - it comes with piano-sample programs - I can right now record some solo-piano with it (which I composed myself), render it to .wav and make a contract with you with which I give you all copyrights to this recording - that's just the same thing.

----And you're going to get each person who downloads your sampled piano playing to sign a license, pay you something for that license to make it all legit and 3 fractions ? If not, then your slippery slope logic = fails.

Jeff

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:48 am

liars&ashes wrote:----And you're going to get each person who downloads your sampled piano playing to sign a license, pay you something for that license to make it all legit and 3 fractions ? If not, then your slippery slope logic = fails.

No one has to sign a license for it to be binding, only have to agree to it, hence the EULA.

Thanks, Drainage, this is a very generous offer.

To solve all of the fuss though, has anyone actually asked FXpansion if redistribution of loops made with BFD is legal? We can argue rights and wrongs forever, nowt to do with law. And for any of the kind folk not interested in breaking the law but inclined to take Drainage up his generous offer, less speculation and more definitive license information we be a great help.

Hell, I'll do it myself. Be back soon.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:19 am

Well I posted in the FXpansion forum, but didn't wait for an answer.

Here's the license info from the BFD manual:

12:5 License agreement

FXpansion grants the Owner of the BFD License the right to create finished musical works and performances using the sounds and software that comprise the BFD product, its expansion packs (as long as you own the licenses for the expansion packs), and any downloadable content for BFD products made available from www.fxpansion.com

The making of sample libraries in any form, commercial or otherwise, be they either single hits, drumloops, or fully mixed audio clips is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN without express written agreement of FXpansion and its audio partners, and violations will be prosecuted to the full extent of international and local copyright law.

The ownership of all the BFD audio material is fully asserted by FXpansion and its audio partners.

The License Owner may only install and use BFD on multiple computers strictly under the following conditions: where multiple computers comprise part of a single composition workstation for a composer; or where the owner has two non-concurrent sites of work, for example a studio desktop and a laptop for live performances.

So the answer is loops violate the license without express consent from FXpansion. Carry on, trainspotters.

zmora · Post by **zmora** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:48 am

Full of samples in net,for example Alesis, Roland TR serie...
Ludwig, Tama....
all in SF or waves, copyright low? Where is?
It's some kind of paranoia

vikernes · Post by **vikernes** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:06 am

I don't know what the fuss is about. Of course you can't make a sample library out of a sample library. AFAIK no sample library has been licenced under such a way to allow this. For example, even Spectrasonics Athmosphere's license forbids you to use it for making samples (because the whole synth is basically hundreds of samples in a nice GUI).

I agree copyright law is usually completely nonlogical and stupid but here I think, is pretty obvious. Someone put a lot of time into those samples.

Royalty Free Drumloops (new here ;)