Royalty Free Drumloops (new here ;)

[Angus_FX]

what's a 'library' - can you define that in legal terms?

It's something that would be / has been decided in a court of law. This type of license has been absolute standard practice amongst sample library vendors for the past 10-15 years, the precedent is rock-solid by now.

In the end the free loops are pulled. Had he not bought BFD but used real drums instead the loops would not have been pulled.

The loops were not pulled; in any case, I guarantee that if he used a supplied or 3rd party library from any other vendor that offers quality content -- NI, IK Multimedia, Spectrasonics, Sonic Reality, Toontrack, East West etc. -- he would be subject to the same (or stricter) conditions. This type of restriction is absolutely standard for pro-quality sample libraries.

and the moral of the story: PEOPLE DO NOT BUY BFD BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT USE IT AT FREE WILL!!! USE A REAL DRUMSET INSTEAD!!!

Yes, if creating sample libraries is your business, it would make sense to create your samples yourself rather than relying on somebody else's.

And if it's true that the license agreement for this BFD stuff restricts your ability to use the sounds in an end product, or any way you see fit short of reselling them, then I'll be looking at other products.

Good luck finding one. Any sample set of comparable quality will have taken months and cost tens of thousands of dollars to create. It's only reasonable that the people that have invested all that time and money should license their samples in a way that protects their interests, and all of them (that I'm aware of) do so.

Enough is enough. We already have to deal with intrusive copy -protection, iLoks, USB dongles and flakey online registration tools with all this shit.

FXpansion's products use none of the above.

When do we EVER get to feel that we actually BOUGHT and OWN this stuff instead of RENTING it?

You're doing neither -- what you're buying (and own) is a contract, not a piece of equipment. With that contract comes obligations on both sides (well, unless you buy from some shady outfit that excludes customer support from the deal).

Alternatively, think of it like owning a car -- just because you paid good money for it, doesn't mean you're allowed to drive it at 200mph on the public highway.

Best regards,
Angus.

[loomchild]

Quote:

When do we EVER get to feel that we actually BOUGHT and OWN this stuff instead of RENTING it?

Welcome to the world of software licences.

[Rozzer]

Off to program some drum-loops using DR-008 - gonna post them later on - see you in court FXpansion - have a nice evening everybody.

I'm off to download Jens' songs, swap the chorus and the verse, and post them as my own. See you in court, have a nice day!

FXP have just as much right to protect their interests as the rest of us. The BFD licence is completely standard. The same as every other sample library.

[thecontrolcentre]

I'm off to download Jens' songs, swap the chorus and the verse, and post them as my own.

[jens]

Off to program some drum-loops using DR-008 - gonna post them later on - see you in court FXpansion - have a nice evening everybody.

I'm off to download Jens' songs, swap the chorus and the verse, and post them as my own. See you in court, have a nice day!

like I care...

(I do once you made your first million with my melodies)


anyway: really really really bad comparison - Drainage is the one who did the creative work here - not the ones who sampled drum-hits - you need technical experience and good equipment for properly recording instruments but not creativity like you need for composing something

[jens]

Alternatively, think of it like owning a car -- just because you paid good money for it, doesn't mean you're allowed to drive it at 200mph on the public highway.

I think it's rather like you had to call Porsche each time you want to shift the gear...

[thecontrolcentre]

Drainage is the one who did the creative work here - not the ones who sampled drum-hits - you need technical experience and good equipment for properly recording instruments but not creativity like you need for composing something

so creating sounds is not creative work?
come on man ... anyone who's ever tried recording drummers, and drum sounds in general knows how much skill, judgement, creativity and talent are required to get a good sounding result ... it's a lot of work ... and let's not forget, Drainage is not actually losing anything here ...

[jens]

Drainage is the one who did the creative work here - not the ones who sampled drum-hits - you need technical experience and good equipment for properly recording instruments but not creativity like you need for composing something

so creating sounds is not creative work?
come on man ... anyone who's ever tried recording drummers, and drum sounds in general knows how much skill, judgement, creativity and talent are required to get a good sounding result ... it's a lot of work ...

[Rozzer]

Drainage is the one who did the creative work here - not the ones who sampled drum-hits - you need technical experience and good equipment for properly recording instruments but not creativity like you need for composing something

[jens]

ruhig Brauner...

[thecontrolcentre]

you need technical experience and good equipment for properly recording instruments BUT NOT CREATIVITY like you need for composing something

[Bob Nova]

When do we EVER get to feel that we actually BOUGHT and OWN this stuff instead of RENTING it?

You're doing neither -- what you're buying (and own) is a contract, not a piece of equipment. With that contract comes obligations on both sides (well, unless you buy from some shady outfit that excludes customer support from the deal).

Alternatively, think of it like owning a car -- just because you paid good money for it, doesn't mean you're allowed to drive it at 200mph on the public highway.

Best regards,
Angus.

Well...maybe I should go back to buying pieces of equipment. Never had to deal with stuff like this from Roland, EMU,Yamaha, etc, etc.

The car analogy doesnt work because you are comparing laws and rules of operating the device to the "contract" one enters into when buying a car. When you buy a car, there are no such restrictions frorm the manufacturer about it's ultimate end use. It's not the mfr. that sets local speed limits, etc, it's the town, city, country you live in. It's a completely separate issue.

The use of the car is governed by a third party who has/had nothing to do with the transaction between the car mfr. and the buyer of the car.

In your case, the vendor ( you) reserves the rights of ownership of the product after purchase.I dont doubt there are legal precedents for this type of contract. My point was that we, the customer, never OWN the product in the traditional sense of ownership one has when you buy
a product. Such as a car.

There is no comparison with my freedom to do with the ownership of my car compared to the "ownership" of your samples. Where clearly, there IS no ownership.

Anyway, my rant wasnt specifically directed at your company. It's just an accumulated build-up
of going full-tilt into soft-everything a few years back, and now seeing the
consequences of this decision. Since there is no real alternative to using software products to produce the quality of sounds we've become used to, we're stuck with it.

But we dont have to like it. Unfortunately, your EULAs cant do anything to stop growing user resentment at this stuff.

[thecontrolcentre]

ruhig Brauner...

[nickkbh]

So what about posting midi files.....with a describtion and suggestions of what drums to use...that would actually be way cooler.
And i could use dfh instead of bfd,or maybe guru or ultrabeat or one of the OTHER sample librarys out there......

[Angus_FX]

Well...maybe I should go back to buying pieces of equipment. Never had to deal with stuff like this from Roland, EMU,Yamaha, etc, etc.

Actually, you do.. any Roland or Yamaha synth (don't know about EMU) sold since the early 1990s has similar (perhaps not identical) conditions attached. If you make a sample CD out of Fantom presets, they'll very likely haul you up in court for it.