KVR Audio

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:12 pm

I'm trying to choose a suitable guitar input device to go with my Variax now. Naturally I looked first at other Line 6 products like Toneport and PodXT - the Toneport looked good as it has SPDIF (which means no clipping and direct input into my Scope cards) but I tried a POD XT in the shop today (I assume this is simlar soundwise) and was underwhelmed - the models seemed thin and lacking in presence to me. I did try comparing it to a Vox Tonelab SE and that was much nicer sounding - fuller and more musical and it rather blew me away - but was too expensive for me at the moment though if it's "beyond compare" I'll wait and save up for it.

I did notice that Korg have several similar products out to the Tonelab now and that Roland/Boss, Yamaha, Digitech, behringer, MAudio, Waves and several other companies (including independent products like the Adrenalinn 2) also have AMP/FX boxes. Ideally I'd prefer something that has digital outs (SPDIF or AES/EBU) and several audio ins (such as for mic as well) but sound and flexibility come before anything else so what sounds best? I'm not necessarily looking for accuracy here - I'm not obsessive about whether they sound exactly like the originals, but I do care if they sound as good as or better than the real thing in terms of musicality and presence.

cptgone · Post by **cptgone** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:16 pm

There's also Tech 21
and Amplitube 2 is announced for "this month"

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:18 pm

Those are software though.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:36 pm

Just found out there's a desktop version of Tonelab that's considerably cheaper and has SPDIF but I can't find anyone in the UK that has it in stock - is it discontinued? - it looks perfect.

darcyb62 · Post by **darcyb62** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:39 pm

I have Korg Toneworks AX3000G that I find myself using more and more. Korg own Vox so it would seem that some of the technologies from the Tonelab are starting to cross over to the Towneworks side. Try one for yourself as even though I like, many probably won't.

rockstar_not · Post by **rockstar_not** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:48 pm

I ran this play about 3 years ago - when there were fewer entrants on the scene, but still quite a few possibilities.

What I did was write down what features I absolutely had to have, what price I was willing to pay, and a few other more subjective things. There were 'surprise and delight' features in each model that I considered that also weighed into the decision.

At the time I was considering a POD 2.0, Johnson J-Station, Behringer V-Amp 2.

Price was important for me. Ease of Use was also important. One feature that was on the V-Amp, besides the price, that really sold me on it was the user interface - the lighted dial indicators really are nice in dark playing environs.

Yeah, I found out about how 'evil' Behringer was after my purchase. I'm not sure I would have gone that way knowing then what I've heard since.

But the price and ease of use / sound combo was a steal. It also included a pedestrian foot pedal (that can change between 5 presets in a bank) that also was a selling feature.

I have had to have it serviced, but it was a fairly pain-free experience - service was handled by Good Guys repair facility in Minnesota.

-Scott

amyjer · Post by **amyjer** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:55 pm

I have a Variax 700 and PodXT live - the two go together extremely well. First, you have a direct digital connection between the Variax and the PODXT live. You can connect the XTlive to your computer through USB for a direct to digital recording. Second, you can configure the Variax/XTLive to change amp/effects along with the guitar model. While this is especially useful for live performance, it is also very handy in the studio to be able to switch from acoustic guitar to a distorted Les Paul at the press of a pedal switch. For my keyboard rig, I have used the XTLive as a MIDI controller (it is great to use with NI's B4II - I use the volume pedal to control the leslie effect). Third, you can download the Variax Workbench software for free to use through the XTlive. This software allows you to virtually build your own guitar (select body, pickups etc.) and create custom altered tuning models.

Everyone has different opinions regarding guitar effects etc. but to my ears, the PODXT amps and effects are quite good. I have tried Digitech, Korg (still have and use the PXR4), and Zoom and like the Line6 modeling/effects the best. I tried my friend's VOX amp and liked the sound but I did not compare the VOX side by side with the Line6 product. As far as software plug-ins go, I use Green Machine which is a great simulator/effects plug in and fairly inexpensive.

The good news is you have plenty of excellent choices and options. Happy hunting!

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:06 pm

I'd go with either a Sans-Amp and a regular soundcard, or the Waves guitar thing. I have a bass V-Amp 'pro' (quite what is supposed to be pro about it, I have not a clue) and it's utterly shit. If it wasn't for the fact that I didn't pay for it, I'd be furious! Quite apart from the uninspiring sounds, it's output is low and noisy.

I would not recomend a V-Amp.

I have a vintage valve amp set-up which cost (thanks Ebay) less than £200, are you quite sure you wouldn't be better off with a real amp?

Unfocused · Post by **Unfocused** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:08 pm

I just went through a similar exercise this past year. I was looking for useful musicality too and surprisingly I thought that the V-Amp2 was the best bang for the buck too: useable models, well-designed interface, and cheap! I had recently purchased a Roland microCube and loved the classic amp models. I had also decided that my only "must-haves" effects-wise were distortion (and/or amp models), delay, and volume pedal. So when the Boss GT-8 came out I figured, "great. This will be perfect." So, Markleford bought one from Musician's Friend and I borrowed it for a couple of days--it realy wasn't what I wanted. The amp models didn't seem to have the presence of the microCube (distortion models were good though). Long story short: neither Markleford or I liked it and he sent it back.

Anyway, I decided to go the single pedal route and ended up with a Jeckyl and Hyde OD/distortion, a volume pedal, and a Boss DD-20 delay--that's all--couldn't be happier. Now I'm not overwhelmed by my effects choices (I used to be a rack FX guy)--I have exactly what I need and ONLY what I need. It's been very liberating!

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:23 pm

I agree that the Tonelab thingies are great.

Very often I recommended a V-Amp (which I own as well), but truth be told: yes, it's quite noisy.
Great bang for the buck nonetheless.

Now, I own a POD (v1, mind you) a Boss GT-5 and some speaker simulator (H&K redbox MKII, IMO the best of the bunches) to go with my Soldano SP-1 preamp as well - but when I compared them to the Tonelab, it kicked all their butts.
I do like the POD XT as well though.

Anyways, last week I got NIs Guitar Rig including their Rig Kontrol. What shall I say? I'm pretty happy with it so far (apart from some issues regarding the comfort of the Rig Kontrol).
Won't be using it to re-amp stuff but just run it standalone and record the results as in the good old days.
Seems to need quite some time to get adjusted to sound tweaking (defenitely not as easy with a mouse, compared to the POD/VAmp knobs), but to me it seems more flexible and probably as good sounding as the mentioned items.

The big question: Would I use it for some seriously banging guitar based recordings? No, doesn't seem like it. I will build myself a dead-box for these tasks somewhen this year and use my real amps.

[ xerocreep ] · Post by **[ xerocreep ]** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:30 pm

For all that is holy avoid the Korg toneworks crap. (Unless you'd like to buy the one i purchased)

I spend every band practice wishing i had spent the money on the Boss GT6 like my co-guitarist rather than the AX whatever i got.

So, I recommend the Roland stuff from a couple years of experience now. It doesnt have multiple inputs, and i dont think it has spdif, but it works really well, and we use it to record direct often.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:31 pm

Thanks folks - looks like maybe it's between the Tonelab desktop (if I can find a supplier) or one of the new Korgs - I'll have to try those - not sure if they have the same sort of Valve based technology though as the VOX even if they are the same company (on the other hand the KORG FX may be better??). I agree that XTLive looks good in principle as a combo with a Variax but like I said I was not impressed by the sounds compared to the Tonelab (and besides I have the workbench already). I don't play live anyway so I don't really need a bulky foot controller - a desktop unit is in some ways more accesible for me.

cptgone · Post by **cptgone** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:35 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Those are software though.

Oops, I meant Tech21...

kilroy · Post by **kilroy** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:37 pm

Well, I won't harp on about it, but Tech21's PSA-1 would be totally worth considering *if* you are not too concerned with the lack of built in FX. In my opinion, it more than makes up for this omission with the high quality of it's raw sound. The PSA is a favorite for recording straight through a desk to tape/disk, in the absense of a real rig, or for building some nice thick layers on top of "real" guitar tracks. The preamp is quite outstanding for the price, and the response is extremely good...practically transparent from the player's perspective, which I think is quite an accomplishment. In fact, it could very well be that players would find this characteristic more attractive than the actual sound itself.

cptgone · Post by **cptgone** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:46 pm

Some other things to consider:

- line6 amps and stuff boast about their "AIR" tech: a miked amp sim. it's supposed to improve their DI sound quality.

- how about reamping?
I have a line6 FlextoneII, great amp but I'd rather record clean, and apply amp simulation later.
I wanted a TonePort until I found out it doesn't do digital reamping (and runs it amp sims as software on your DAW).

Overwhelmed by choices of Guitar fx/amp boxes