sonar5pe or cubase sx3 which and why?

[whyterabbyt]

Honestly I wasn't giving him a hard time. Did it seem that way? I was just shocked because of the sheer amount of stuff that 500-600 plugs involves. I mean it's overwhleming /to me/. I wasn't implying that he shouldn't do it or he's a goofball or anything. Did I seriously come off like that? If so (to rabbyt: i apologize if this is how it sounded. I was being sincere about the free time because I would think it would take tons of time to manage all of that stuff and try it out, etc.)... Dudes I am all for trying new shit believe me! I just dont have the time, and I'm in no way trying to say that if you do, you suck or anything. I am envious if anything

It wasn't taken that way. Since Ive owned Sonar since v1, though, Ive had 5 years or so to go through and test plugins. Its very easy to try a few and spit them out a couple of minutes later.
One other reason I constantly test a lot of plugins is because I develop an application for helping users sort their folder menus in Sonar. Because Sonar does rely on registry entries for its plugin lists, it actually means the menus can be customised very easily. My application assists in that, and it means I spend far more time 'under the hood' running and rerunning the adaptor, and manipulating the registry entries it uses, than most people.

[keyman_sam]

grymmjack,
you have a lot of misinformed facts. Sonar doesnt scan the plugins everytime you start up. You just run the wrapper when you get anew plugin and it runs thru it ONCE. Thats it.

FWIW, i remember wwaaay back trying fruity loops demo. god bless those who work with it for i sure as heck cant work with an ugly dark nooby interface like that. It looks like a jungle surrounded by cannibals. thats my opinion.

My Cakewalk experience started when i bought home studio 9. Sonar is much better than hs9 (obv.) Try s5 and tell us whether yo like it or not.

FWIW, i have S4PE now.

[grymmjack]

I like a clean system with no needless stuff hanging about in the registry Sure there are lots of things outside of the audio domain that modify things, what we are talking about here is Sonar. Stick to the topic eh?

You were trying to imply that registry changes were 'system level modifiucations' which they are not. You try sticking to the topic, huh?

No I wasn't, that is a biproduct of registering DirectX plugin and it is system-level (external entirely to sonar itself)? Registry changes are system level modifications. Registration of the direct-x plugin with regsvr32 or whatever involves the registry right?

The code isn't cakewalks though, which is the point.

Which code isnt Cakewalk's? The VST handling code within the wrapper is

The original VST wrapper was licensed from a 3rd party vendor was it not?

The DX adapter isn't the same as the wrapper?

ARe you delibee=rately playing dumb?. The GUI is not the wrapper.

No I swear I'm not playing dumb. I must really be dumb. It is entirely possible as mentioned by bduffy that we are talking about two different versions. Which GUI are we even discussing? The sonar one or the adapter one?

Unless something has changed in v5, the adapter was an external app from sonar itself.

Yes it has. But the GUI was always separate from the wrapper anyway.

I am totally confused now. I thought the external app WAS the wrapper? Registering VST/VSTi's as DX/DXi's instead of native VST's? The code handling done by the external app?

I am not being inconsistent. I am trying to make sense of this whole mess.

Yes it is what you asked, read your post again. You asked if I could do that in other hosts, or if it was just a red herring. My reply is pointing out that indeed I can do it in other hosts.

Then if you can do it, why did you say it was a problem that you cannot do it? Its your mess that makes it inconsistent.

Hahaha I feel like I'm dealing with a jedi forum master or something. I am confused now more than ever about this whole thing.

Where is the communication breakdown here? Heh.

Your inconsistency:

What bothers me more is that as a side-effect I have no way to disable the presence of an adapted plugin within other direct-x aware apps -- for example I do not want soundforge scanning and detecting certain plug-ins that I don't use inside of soundforge, etc.

versus

Yes. In FLstudio and T2 both. I can disable them or exclude them. Same with the latest incarnation of Soundforge

Oh I GET IT NOW. It still bothers me because I have to actually go and disable them to begin with. Sorry abou the confusion. It bothers me that it's not just some sonar-only-scoped situation but makes me do it everywhere else. That is what I mean. And now I see that you are pointing out the same is true with VST, but it's not because VST is easier to manage, copy/drag drop DLL files in folders to and fro without worrying about breaking an association/registry thing in DX and crashing another DX-aware app on startup because of a broken pointer/etc..

[grymmjack]

Honestly I wasn't giving him a hard time. Did it seem that way? I was just shocked because of the sheer amount of stuff that 500-600 plugs involves. I mean it's overwhleming /to me/. I wasn't implying that he shouldn't do it or he's a goofball or anything. Did I seriously come off like that? If so (to rabbyt: i apologize if this is how it sounded. I was being sincere about the free time because I would think it would take tons of time to manage all of that stuff and try it out, etc.)... Dudes I am all for trying new shit believe me! I just dont have the time, and I'm in no way trying to say that if you do, you suck or anything. I am envious if anything

It wasn't taken that way. Since Ive owned Sonar since v1, though, Ive had 5 years or so to go through and test plugins. Its very easy to try a few and spit them out a couple of minutes later.
One other reason I constantly test a lot of plugins is because I develop an application for helping users sort their folder menus in Sonar. Because Sonar does rely on registry entries for its plugin lists, it actually means the menus can be customised very easily. My application assists in that, and it means I spend far more time 'under the hood' running and rerunning the adaptor, and manipulating the registry entries it uses, than most people.

Much respect for you for doing something like that. It's good that such a thing exists (it didn't when I was using sonar). I'm glad you didn't get offended, I don't mean to sound harsh or anything. What is the name of your app and where can one learn more about it?

[bduffy]

The thread has really exploded since I turned my back...grymmjack, I was probably taking you too harshly. Thanks for responding to my stuff, all is good.

[grymmjack]

grymmjack,
you have a lot of misinformed facts. Sonar doesnt scan the plugins everytime you start up. You just run the wrapper when you get anew plugin and it runs thru it ONCE. Thats it.

FWIW, i remember wwaaay back trying fruity loops demo. god bless those who work with it for i sure as heck cant work with an ugly dark nooby interface like that. It looks like a jungle surrounded by cannibals. thats my opinion.

My Cakewalk experience started when i bought home studio 9. Sonar is much better than hs9 (obv.) Try s5 and tell us whether yo like it or not.

FWIW, i have S4PE now.

I'm going to. After all of this I think I owe it to everyone including myself. I am humble, I will admit my faults. I didn't think that the VST adapter would change much as it's 'gozinta->gozouta' kind of blackbox. My error and excuse my ignorance.

[keyman_sam]

I wish steiny put a cubase sx demo so that i can see for once what the hecks up with sonar vs cubase as if this cubase is soo great.

sonar rules. period. It'd be hard to get any better than this. Oh, and not only does it rule but it also doesnt have any......















































































































































DONGLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[woc53]

Thanks a lot--yoou just gave me carpal tunnel of the index finger with all that space.

[Meffy]

No dongle, just an easy serial number. The other side to that is that you can't transfer a Sonar license. To some people that's a stopper. For me that's no sacrifice at all, I hardly ever sell things once I've bought them.

[whyterabbyt]

No I wasn't, that is a biproduct of registering DirectX plugin and it is system-level (external entirely to sonar itself)? Registry changes are system level modifications. Registration of the direct-x plugin with regsvr32 or whatever involves the registry right?

The registry is a database of information. Changing information in one area of that database does not affect anything else. That change is not a 'system-level' change, it is merely a change to the database.

The original VST wrapper was licensed from a 3rd party vendor was it not?

It was originally developed by FXpansion. However from what I understand from what Angus has said, it is now Cakewalk's application, they bought the rights to it, not a license. They have also developed it somewhat since they purchased it.

No I swear I'm not playing dumb. I must really be dumb. It is entirely possible as mentioned by bduffy that we are talking about two different versions. Which GUI are we even discussing? The sonar one or the adapter one?

The GUI would appear to be a separate .exe application which can be spawned by Sonar. It is responsible for the collation and handling of the registry data required by DX/DXi plugins. The wrapper is a .dll, which runs in-process in Sonar, and serves to respond to DX/DXi calls within Sonar and translate them to VST/VSTi calls which are handled by individual plugins, also in-process.

I am totally confused now. I thought the external app WAS the wrapper? Registering VST/VSTi's as DX/DXi's instead of native VST's? The code handling done by the external app?

No, not as a separate applications. Plugins run within the same process as the host.

Hahaha I feel like I'm dealing with a jedi forum master or something. I am confused now more than ever about this whole thing.

I have to admit, I have been finding a lot of what you have said very difficult to follow as well.

Oh I GET IT NOW. It still bothers me because I have to actually go and disable them to begin with. Sorry abou the confusion. It bothers me that it's not just some sonar-only-scoped situation but makes me do it everywhere else. That is what I mean. And now I see that you are pointing out the same is true with VST, but it's not because VST is easier to manage, copy/drag drop DLL files in folders to and fro without worrying about breaking an association/registry thing in DX and crashing another DX-aware app on startup because of a broken pointer/etc..

Ive never seen an app crash because of a missing DX plugin. Sonar handles it just fine; it even has a mode which helps you 'fix' plugin assignments in old projects which have since been removed...

[whyterabbyt]

Much respect for you for doing something like that. It's good that such a thing exists (it didn't when I was using sonar). I'm glad you didn't get offended, I don't mean to sound harsh or anything. What is the name of your app and where can one learn more about it?

Its been around since Sonar v1 and version 3 of the VST-DX adaptor, actually; I wrote it to scratch my own itch, let it 'loose' once I hads some degree of confidence that it wouldnt turn people to ash, and have kept it up to date with changes to the adaptor since then. Its called SUBSonar.

[grymmjack]

(more rabbyt stuff here) ... 8< ... Ive never seen an app crash because of a missing DX plugin. Sonar handles it just fine; it even has a mode which helps you 'fix' plugin assignments in old projects which have since been removed...

I can't say for sure either but is it wise to move the files referenced by a dx plugin from your experience? Also, you clearly are the authority on this stuff since you have spent so much time in it and I digress and gracefully bow out. I will say that through this I have a complete new desire to try sonar 5 and when I do I will be a good little idiot (as I feel that way now after all) and post my impressions.

All: accept my humble and formal apology for my ignorance and the wasted time you have spent trying to make sense of this whole mess. I owe you all frozen cokes.

-grymmy

[grymmjack]

Much respect for you for doing something like that. It's good that such a thing exists (it didn't when I was using sonar). I'm glad you didn't get offended, I don't mean to sound harsh or anything. What is the name of your app and where can one learn more about it?

Its been around since Sonar v1 and version 3 of the VST-DX adaptor, actually; I wrote it to scratch my own itch, let it 'loose' once I hads some degree of confidence that it wouldnt turn people to ash, and have kept it up to date with changes to the adaptor since then. Its called SUBSonar.

Googling SUBsonar I see a yahoo group but no reference to a homepage for your project. Can you be so kind as to paste a URL in for me? Thanks in advance.

[headquest]

Its been around since Sonar v1 and version 3 of the VST-DX adaptor, actually; I wrote it to scratch my own itch, let it 'loose' once I hads some degree of confidence that it wouldnt turn people to ash, and have kept it up to date with changes to the adaptor since then. Its called SUBSonar.

I'd like to pick that up too... do you have a link to a download ... please?

[Meffy]

@grymm: Yeah, give it a shot. You might or might not like it, but you'll catch up on what Sonar's doing these days.