experimental wing of kvr?

[tuz]

How do you go about approaching the decision to find a new sound?

a. you have to know a lot of the old sound and try to avoid it.
b. invent.


i don't know if it's a or b or a combination... but the whole philosophy behind invention is either with the help of luck, a huge head or a little help from my friends.

[suburban grilla]

Pah, he was probably ex-directory

It would be interesting if he was padlocked under the brick and the only person with the key had to call first

[intel]

So what's the next thing?

there is no "next thing" to an experimentalist. an experimentalist has ideas or concepts to explore, not a need or a desire to develop a method. if you're in the market to develop methods, you're not experimental - you're just cashing in on an idea no one else has cashed in on before. if you explore a concept and that concept becomes your method, you cease to be experimental and become stagnant. at that point you're no better than a pop songwriter. you have a method you employ to arrive at a pre-determined sound and that's what you do. experimentalists must shift paradigms constantly and grow exponentially in order to avoid becoming stagnant and settling for a method. once a level of comfort has been established, the experimentalist becomes the next Holland/Dozier/Holland.

[Amberience]

So what's the next thing?

there is no "next thing" to an experimentalist. an experimentalist has ideas or concepts to explore, not a need or a desire to develop a method. if you're in the market to develop methods, you're not experimental - you're just cashing in on an idea no one else has cashed in on before. if you explore a concept and that concept becomes your method, you cease to be experimental and become stagnant. at that point you're no better than a pop songwriter. you have a method you employ to arrive at a pre-determined sound and that's what you do. experimentalists must shift paradigms constantly and grow exponentially in order to avoid becoming stagnant and settling for a method. once a level of comfort has been established, the experimentalist becomes the next Holland/Dozier/Holland.

Yes! I know, I agree. What I was getting at is that experimentalism by definition leads to a sort of household status. "The next thing" isn't actually the next thing, it's the old thing that someone did before, and everyone else followed suit.

Doesn't make it bad and stagnant is probably a bit too strong a word for it. But it certainly does make it more conventional.

[suburban grilla]

I'm not sure that a "method" in isolation necessarily leads to stagnation. Turning the method into a formula, sure.
But using a method to create rules which can later be broken could possibly inspire further creativity.

[Sickle]

well there does seem to be some enthusiasm for an experimental wing at kvr. perhaps i/we should bring it up to zee master of kvr? who is ... ?

Try a pm to "ben kvr"

If we don't have much luck would you consider using the auditorium?

Sickle's section is already in place and would be a good starting point. Or another section could easily be created.
As mentioned previously, there is a good deal of cross polination between kvr and auditorium.

Mine's in place, yes, but we need something a bit different if we're gonna do it there. One advantage of doing it at the Auditorium is minimizing the agitations that come with things like vurt has indicated.

Ben[KVR]'s a pretty busy guy.

If you'd like, I can talk to Spe3D about setting up a new Alchemaic Digitalis section at the Auditorium that can be moderated by him, myself, suburban, or any of the existing mods, really.

This way, you can do it the right way:

1 - Harness The Auditorium's relative lack of sonic obstruction/trolls(I moderate, need I say more?)

2 - When results are obtained to satisfaction, publish there as well as here.

Just give the Auditorium a plug in your Cafe post and I'm sure that's all Spe3D would want.

Cheers,
D

[intel]

in the eyes of an experimentalist, 'conventional' is stagnant. its not moving. its sitting still and growing algae and breeding mosquitos. it fails to provide challenge or critical thinking.

perhaps when you say "the next thing" you mean something different than how its interpretted by me. when I hear that phrase the Yankee in me immediately thinks of some smarmy LA type agent looking for a way to capitalize on a trend.

[tuz]

yes.. the clash of philosophies. it all comes down to questions. i'm not a philosopher but i'll try.

one thing that i agree with on intel's post is that it suggests the lack of satisfaction of an artist.

"i guess the main question is "have you found yourself?"

stagnant may be interpreted as dismissal of some artists' great experiments and "conclusions". but again, the question is "have you come to a conclusion?" .... i don't necessarily agree or disagree on the stagnation comment, but i think a certain amount of "one's own method" should definitely be visible, while not taking away from the ever-evolution.

[Amberience]

in the eyes of an experimentalist, 'conventional' is stagnant. its not moving. its sitting still and growing algae and breeding mosquitos. it fails to provide challenge or critical thinking.

perhaps when you say "the next thing" you mean something different than how its interpretted by me. when I hear that phrase the Yankee in me immediately thinks of some smarmy LA type agent looking for a way to capitalize on a trend.

Well I was meaning it more of a buzzword kind of thing. Like, for a while "convolution" was on everyones tongues, because someone had pioneered it. And its been that way for ages, the imitators keep an eye on the innovators, and they rape their ideas for profit. Its just the way of things.

But a facet of experimenting is that those experiments are invariably going to cause a ruckus and someone is going to have the bright idea of pillaging it. But y'know, they wont ever do it as good as the originator.

[suburban grilla]

well there does seem to be some enthusiasm for an experimental wing at kvr. perhaps i/we should bring it up to zee master of kvr? who is ... ?

Try a pm to "ben kvr"

If we don't have much luck would you consider using the auditorium?

Sickle's section is already in place and would be a good starting point. Or another section could easily be created.
As mentioned previously, there is a good deal of cross polination between kvr and auditorium.

Mine's in place, yes, but we need something a bit different if we're gonna do it there. One advantage of doing it at the Auditorium is minimizing the agitations that come with things like vurt has indicated.

Ben[KVR]'s a pretty busy guy.

If you'd like, I can talk to Spe3D about setting up a new Alchemaic Digitalis section at the Auditorium that can be moderated by him, myself, suburban, or any of the existing mods, really.

This way, you can do it the right way:

1 - Harness The Auditorium's relative lack of sonic obstruction/trolls(I moderate, need I say more?)

2 - When results are obtained to satisfaction, publish there as well as here.

Just give the Auditorium a plug in your Cafe post and I'm sure that's all Spe3D would want.

Cheers,
D

If we do decide to go the auditorium route a new separate forum would be the way to go.
This thread has already proved that there is some interesting discussion to be had on this subject.

I'm certainly up for helping in its implementation

[deaf dunderkwac]

yes.. the clash of philosophies. it all comes down to questions. i'm not a philosopher but i'll try.

one thing that i agree with on intel's post is that it suggests the lack of satisfaction of an artist.

"i guess the main question is "have you found yourself?"

stagnant may be interpreted as dismissal of some artists' great experiments and "conclusions". but again, the question is "have you come to a conclusion?" .... i don't necessarily agree or disagree on the stagnation comment, but i think a certain amount of "one's own method" should definitely be visible, while not taking away from the ever-evolution.

tuz , agree that for me its always the next one as i'm never done

since I started composing since 2004, there is not a single thing I've done that wasn't approached in an experimental way, either in what sounds I used to odd tempos and song stuctures. I may have always been this way (includes how I approach my 'paid' work)
so my opinion of experimental is all ways changing, thus being experimental. Not necessarily something new, but quite different then where I was before.
if it had already been attempted but I wasn't aware of it... this isn't like a 'ignorance of the law' thing. I just except the fact is was and is now considered to be boring, and go on searching.
Even when I think I've 'found it' I much prefer others to fully explore it, as I'm ready to move on.
enuff about me


... are we, who stray towards the experimental, just bored... or are we driven by some other force (for me, I suspect brain damage)

[Amberience]

I'm certainly up for helping in its implementation

Ditto. I'd actually be quite up for a sort of KvR Experimentalist collective also.

[Sickle]

... are we, who stray towards the experimental, just bored... or are we driven by some other force (for me, I suspect brain damage)

There's not to question why, there's but to do or die..

[tuz]

... are we, who stray towards the experimental, just bored... or are we driven by some other force (for me, I suspect brain damage)

heh. i don't even consider myself even close to the same level of many artists here. but here's what i think the reason is in the simplest form.


we're always hungry and we'll die hungry.

[deaf dunderkwac]

... are we, who stray towards the experimental, just bored... or are we driven by some other force (for me, I suspect brain damage)

heh. i don't even consider myself even close to the same level of many artists here. but here's what i think the reason is in the simplest form.


we're always hungry and we'll die hungry.

-r- u sure there isn't a tantric side to being a muslim

@sickle... check my sig