The I Love Logic thread

[jasonsantiago]

And Cubase is years behind Logic at non-destructive editing
I moved to Logic from Cubase and the only thing that really makes imo a difference is the handling of audio parts in the arrange.
On the other hand the automation in Cubase is a joke when you're looking how it is implemented in Logic.
In Cubase I used automation only when I had no other choice to do some kind of things but in Logic I find myself using it all the time.
And, by the way, you can limit as mch as you want the undo steps in Logic, so what's the big deal?
I still use Cubase from time to time but I couldn't see myself going back to it from Logic.

I'd be interested to find out what automation features are superior in Logic. Also, what features is cubase missing in non-desctructive editing?

I'm genuinely curious.

[jasonsantiago]

This way of working is a more kind of modern breakbeaty type approach, and I agree, I would like to be able to have this handled better in Logic - if you want to work this way, it can be a bit tiresome.

I disagree. It's much less tiresome having no creative limits on plugin and instrument counts. It's not that I don't have *any* instruments or effects at a given time, it's just that I frequently desctructively edit them, then again, then again to get many powerful chains of effects that sometimes would take up 50% of my cpu.

Well, if that's your opinion that's fine, but I'm not sure I'd state that as a matter of fact.
I'm sure it hurt many people, and I'm sure many people didn't care. I know many Logic users that don't use any third-party plugins at all, for example.

I don't know all reasons for the decision, I'm sure it wasn't an easy one. I can guess at some of them, and they make sense for business reasons. To be held hostage for a significant part of your product's functionality by a rival company who release a limited amount of host documentation for a 'standard' format, and who have had a long history of business rivalry is a risky business move.

...not using third party plug-ins is a pretty foreign idea to me. I can't understand people who do that. There are so much better plug-ins and instruments out there, to be limited like that...

In terms of being limited, I'm not saying they couldn't create AU, but there was no reason to dump VST. They could have had the best of both worlds -- control their own standard, while still supporting VST.

Also, the plugin validation process, while some people found it an inconvenience, gave developers and the public a way to have a little more confidence that a plug would work.

I don't know any developers who say that.

Often, a third party plug may crash the host which gives the impression the host is not stable, rather than being caused by the plugin at fault. Yes, it meant some more work for the developers, and some weren't happy with this, but it has meant that these days, stability with validated AU plugins has been *way* better than any host I've used, including Logic 5.5 on the PC with VST plugs. In fact, a plug has *never* crashed Logic Pro here, in the few years I have used the Mac version.

Weird. I've crashed Logic Pro many, many times. It's very crash prone for me. Do you mostly use the built in Logic plugins, or do you use many third party plugins? It just sounds like you are regurgitating the apple AU myth.

And wow - I haven't heard the term "plugin format wars" for a long time... I think most people have accepted the situation for what it is, like it or not, and moved on...

I just think discontinuing VST support was highly irresponsible. AU wasn't really any better, so it wasn't a big upgrade in features or something.

[beej]

This way of working is a more kind of modern breakbeaty type approach, and I agree, I would like to be able to have this handled better in Logic - if you want to work this way, it can be a bit tiresome.

I disagree. It's much less tiresome having no creative limits on plugin and instrument counts. It's not that I don't have *any* instruments or effects at a given time, it's just that I frequently desctructively edit them, then again, then again to get many powerful chains of effects that sometimes would take up 50% of my cpu.

I think you misread my intentions there - I meant, I agree if you, if you want to work this way "Logic" can be a bit tiresome.

Weird. I've crashed Logic Pro many, many times. It's very crash prone for me. Do you mostly use the built in Logic plugins, or do you use many third party plugins? It just sounds like you are regurgitating the apple AU myth.

I'm not regurgiating anybody's myth, I'm telling you of my experiences. Yes, I use a certain amount of third party stuff - Stylus RMX, Imposcar, Zebra, Waves, a range of free stuff and so on.

I would say in a couple of years, Logic has probably crashed on me maybe 20 times tops... Orders of magnitude less than on my PC - but Logic is a better product these days as well...

[jon9091]

Are you sure you understand what I meant? I meant in total plugins available to choose from, VST has more total. I don't think anyone can argue against that. If you want to argue how many plugins can be loaded *at a time* on identical machines, I have no idea. I'm just saying the VST spec provides more options. Apple shouldn't have dirched it.

On the Mac platform, what plug ins are available as VST but not AU? I can't think of a single one....unless it's maybe some Steinberg piece of crap. And why would Apple want to wait around for Steinberg to dictate what features and functions are in VST?

[spaceman]

You're joking right ? Logic can beat cubase any day for plugin count.

Are you sure you understand what I meant? I meant in total plugins available to choose from, VST has more total. I don't think anyone can argue against that. If you want to argue how many plugins can be loaded *at a time* on identical machines, I have no idea. I'm just saying the VST spec provides more options. Apple shouldn't have dirched it..

half the vsts out there are full of crap code, why on earth would you want those horrible creatures to live in your host? spend half your time answering support calls from idiots who inserted "CrapReverbChorusDistortionTurd VST" and IT MADE THEIR HOST CRASH!!!!!

at least with AU you know whether it passed the test or not, and from what I've heard from Urs, it will soon be a far superior format to vst as well.

I can't believe how so many here wil just openely admit what f**king cubase whores they all are.. 'it doesn't do what steinberg said it should do blaaaaah balahblah'

[putte]

at least with AU you know whether it passed the test or not, and from what I've heard from Urs, it will soon be a far superior format to vst as well.

.. spaceman, it takes a coder some lines of code to pass the AU-validation test, even though the AU would not really pass the test.
ask urs ..

putte

[spaceman]

at least with AU you know whether it passed the test or not, and from what I've heard from Urs, it will soon be a far superior format to vst as well.

.. spaceman, it takes a coder some lines of code to pass the AU-validation test, even though the AU would not really pass the test.
ask urs ..

putte

I've still only had a fraction of the problems I had with vst
so who cares

[putte]

I've still only had a fraction of the problems I had with vst
so who cares

.. and its the opposite here: i went through hell with AU ..

putte

[spaceman]

I've still only had a fraction of the problems I had with vst
so who cares

.. and its the opposite here: i went through hell with AU ..

putte

has that been confirmed now?
because the problems you had were so extreme it's hard to imagine it was (just) AU

[putte]

.. belive me, i know when its plugins causing troubles.
and if its confirmed? it is, i could send you tons of crashlogs.
and i sent these tons to quite some developers already in the past.

AU´s even manage to interefere with each other in a way one simply cant understand, butz causing Logic to crash.
(example: bfd, hydratone and NI-players ..)

and most of these crashlogs dont help a single bit, not even the devs.


putte

[spaceman]

.. belive me, i know when its plugins causing troubles.
and if its confirmed? it is, i could send you tons of crashlogs.
and i sent these tons to quite some developers already in the past.

putte

but do other people with the same system have the same problem using the same plugins? I just mean that there will of course be some problems with some people but the AU situation is still far far better than the VST horrorfest of the likes of many synthedit monsters and other 'I know two lines of C so let me code a vst plugin' crowd

[putte]

because the problems you had were so extreme it's hard to imagine it was (just) AU

.. most of the probs were due to AU, some others due to Logic itself.

putte

[putte]

but do other people with the same system have the same problem using the same plugins?

.. i for one dont care about others in this really, as i have to deal with my setup.
though, i know quite some people who have/had problems with AU´s.

is it a wonder? Apple does changes to the AU-specs all the time, and devs have to keep up.

putte

[jon9091]

but do other people with the same system have the same problem using the same plugins?

.. i for one dont care about others in this really, as i have to deal with my setup.
though, i know quite some people who have/had problems with AU´s.

is it a wonder? Apple does changes to the AU-specs all the time, and devs have to keep up.

putte

I believe Apple has changed AU's exactly once since their inception. Now, the AU validation may have become more strict along the way . . . but that's not a change to the AU spec itself.

[DHR53]

because the problems you had were so extreme it's hard to imagine it was (just) AU

.. most of the probs were due to AU, some others due to Logic itself.

putte

So, Putte... I haven't heard any awful stories lately, what's up with your system? Are you still using Logic... and BFD, Hydratone, and Intakt?? I have to say I never had the same problems, but I never used any of those VI's either...