Amplitude & GuitarRig Vs. Vamp2 & Pod2

[zeoy]

Since there are lots of guitarists round this thread, care to share your thoughts about this sound clip

http://www.show.gr/zeoy/final_gtr_solo_bar104_135.mp3

it's a small guitar solo I recorded for a friend's track. It's only guitar but not totally dry. There is some delay+reverb but the actual sound is there. What do you think?

[feyshay]

You do know that there is a software, line6 Edit that allows you to tweak pod easily and transparently, on the computer, save and load patches etc?
Please, have in mind that I do not know your level of experience, but what you are describin can simply be a result of wrong set up of guitar (pickups to close to strings etc), because the only time I have seen clipping on POD is when guy came with guitar (Les Paul too with high output dimarzios) where pickups were close to touching strings. Lowering pickups solved the problem. That could be also the reason why none of the presets sounded all right with your guitar.
Also if you are into heavy sounds, expansion packs for POD XT make a world of difference, most sounds I liked were recorded using metal model pack.

Thanks Vervil. Yeah, I know that this might be an issue with my Les Paul, but I have heard it so frequently with others with the same guitar. Those humbuckers have a high output. It generally fixed the problem, turning the volume knobs down to about 7, and the guitar sounds so good with my amplifier that I didn't want to muck with a good thing.
I purchased the metal and classic packs. I don't want to give the sense that I didn't like the POD. I sold it and the packs for $430, so I didn't lose too much money. That paid for Guitar Rig 2.
The POD never gave me a clipping message, like it was supposed to. Also, I never really got into the Line 6 Edit (although I had used it). I did not like the USB use of the POD. I wanted to use ASIO within my DAW. Then you had to monitor through the headphones output of the POD XT Live.
Also, all of my pedals are true bypass and analog--Fulltone, Carl Martin, Diamond, EH. I didn't like the idea of going through the A/D and D/A converters in the POD XT Live before sending the signal back to my Apogee converter.
I think the amp sims in GR 2 are as good as they are in the POD. It is easier to use. I think the connection options and versatility is greater.
I want to have full Analog until A/D conversion and then not have to convert back if I needed to reamp. I have generally been running through my pedals and then into an amp sim and/or cabinet, when I use Guitar Rig 2. I'm not expecting (or wanting) it to give me too much distortion.

[Sascha Franck]

FWIW, the goddamn Soldano pre is f**king worn off - seems as if 3 years in the garage didn't do it well. So no samples of that combination today, but for the few moments it worked (before I started ripping everything out, cleaning it and whatever) it's been quite great and the combination of it, the Indigo and GR2s speaker sims seems to be something worth considering (even if 2 more rackspaces used would mean I can't use a rack-bag anymore).
Gonna take the little bugger to the repair shop tomorrow, needs at least 2-3 of the 5 tubes to be replaced and some serious re-soldering (which I could perhaps do myself, but I better have the rest of the components checked as well).

Anyways, will fool around with GR now a bit more and perhaps post some of the results.

[Hink]

Sascha, you are much better off to replace all the tubes of the same type...not pick and choose...in other words if you're changing pres change all the pres..same with power tubes...and make sure they are matched...

[Sascha Franck]

Yeah, I know, gotta have them all replaced. Not sure whether they really need to be matched (of course, for power amps they have to be). I actually don't want to spend a fortune - and tubes are freaking expensive over here, for whatever reason.

Fwiw, even if the damn Soldano is halfbroken, the response to my playing was unbelievable. Should really make me think about re-integrating it seriously.
For whomever is interested: It's one of the cheap models, an SP-77 Series II. I got it *way* back for 400 marks (so that's around US$200). You can still find them for that price. Too bad the crunch channel is missing (and the clean one won't do a great crunch, it just sizzles a bit).
Been using it in my first amp sim setup as well, running through a H&K red box. Did the job quite well.

[redsox]

FWIW, I have GuitarPort, GR2, Waves GTR and have owned amps as high as US $1800 just for the head.

Anyway, Line6 stuff sounds pretty good, really good sometimes, however, one trick I learned recently.....GR2 that some rave about, (not that thrilled) and Waves GTR are ok, but together they make a great sound...

I load two tracks SX, one with GR2 Thin fizzy rectifier sound (which is not how a RECT sounds) and the other channel with Waves (which is thick but not cutting) and together they make the perfect Green Day crunch, both thick and cutting. Sort of like a pro mix, the signal of any item/track by itself sounds like poop, but together (or a mix in this analogy) they sound great.

There is no perfect amp sim. I found AT1 very noisy. Guitarport by itself which I assume is the same for all of line 6 sound the closet with the least amount of tweaking, then again, you can't buy a rectifier and get a Fender Tonemaster sound nor a Marshall JCM800 out of any one amp. Groove Tube almost had it once (with American 6L6 coke bottles (not made in a long time (the tubes) which had a crunchy and bright sparkle sound in one amp.

It was Elastica meets twang sort of amp. Pretty cool. Haven't heard their latest.

[redsox]

PPS. I also read and hear the NYTECH? PSA 1.1 sounds/works good.

[feyshay]

BTW. If you're trying out the GR2 demo, you have to engage a button on the top right of the interface that allows for high quality sound. It makes a big difference.
I wonder what the magic is with all these amp sims. I am not a programmer, but aren't these amp sims distortion, equalization, and reverb tweaking? What else is involved?

[Sascha Franck]

I wonder what the magic is with all these amp sims. I am not a programmer, but aren't these amp sims distortion, equalization, and reverb tweaking? What else is involved?

I guess the main deal about it is emulating the "inaccuracy" of quite some components in the usual guitar players signal chain.
Most distortion boxes just don't sound accurate. The most famous ones even less so.
Let alone tubes - those just don't sound accurate at all - at least not in guitar amps. They're overdriven, wear out, have slightly de-adjusted bias settings, etc etc.
And then there's tube power amps that just don't amplify in a linear fashion.
And finally there's speakers. Just look at a frequency chart of any common guitar speaker. Horrible. It's not only a HF cut that is happening, there's spikes and notches all over the freaking place - but just seems to be what it takes to get a great sound.
And, even more, there's interaction between all those parts. My Tubescreamer (first edition) sounds kickass in front of a Marshall but it sucks when running through a Twin.
Tube power amps interact with cabinets...

Etc etc.

Of course, there's a lot of myths as well, but from my personal experience I could list a lot of situations where something just didn't sound as I'd expected.
Just one example: I once had a Plexi Marshall (50 w, no reissue but the original, sold it for 400 marks back then, which was stillt he double amount of what I paid, but yeah, slap me BIG time!). Almost everything but the tubes was completely broken. You almost couldn't adjust the volume without the damn thing making the most awful noises ever.
But it simply delivered *the* killer sound. Probably the best basic guitar sound I ever had (just that I didn't realize that back then...).
Ok, I had to have it serviced because it was impossible to play the bugger live. The main parts were kept as they were (tubes, transformers, pots), after all it's been cleaned and some cables had to be replaced.
Now, to my big dissapointment: While it was still sounding really good, that "killer magic" wasn't there anymore - and it's been a pretty damn great repair shop (one of *the* shops over here) I had it done at.

And no, I'm in no way buying into all that vintage and analog hype.
Now, imagine how difficult it becomes to put all those inaccuracies into software...
Guess it's just the same as with all the virtual analog synths that simply still don't sound the same like their hardware counterparts.

Oh btw, to Vervil: I would gladly know about some dead box schematics as well - couldn't find any so far. Would be great if someone had a link (preferably to some 1x12" cab).

And btw #2: Along the dead box lines, I had a play with one of those Zvex nano amps a few days ago. Absolutely stunning! Those should be a perfect match for a dead box equipped home recording scenario.
Might not be the right choice for NuMetal though, but it seems to deliver some great classic rock riff sounds.
There's also some rather new gizmo of (german) Thomas Reußenzehn, the "El 34", a single PA tube amp. You can even exchange the tube with all other common models. Need to have a play with it one day, but it's rather expensive (900 € or so).

[zeoy]

Regarding dead boxes: dont you mind loosing the ability for controlled feedbacks Sascha?

[Sascha Franck]

Regarding dead boxes: dont you mind loosing the ability for controlled feedbacks Sascha?

Well, I don't have them now either, at least not easily.
And I could still route a part of the miced signal to my little Gallien Krueger, which I could place like anywhere (allready did that before, worked quite nicely).

[zeoy]

Regarding dead boxes: dont you mind loosing the ability for controlled feedbacks Sascha?

Well, I don't have them now either, at least not easily.
And I could still route a part of the miced signal to my little Gallien Krueger, which I could place like anywhere (allready did that before, worked quite nicely).

Nice tip

[Vervil]

Since there are lots of guitarists round this thread, care to share your thoughts about this sound clip

http://www.show.gr/zeoy/final_gtr_solo_bar104_135.mp3

it's a small guitar solo I recorded for a friend's track. It's only guitar but not totally dry. There is some delay+reverb but the actual sound is there. What do you think?

Well, I didn't personaly like it, it is kind of "hollow" sounding to me. May be a matter of taste, but something is happening in the mids that I don't like. Lead sounds are not that critical on sims, at least not that much as rhythm guitar sounds.
I noticed that no one gave you any comments on your clip, so...

Sascha, it is hard to get my hands on equipment for test drive here, but thanks for informations anyway Nice story about Marshall btw, nonlinearity and unpredictability of tube amps can be a blessing but in some other situations curse too.

[championrabbit]

Since there are lots of guitarists round this thread, care to share your thoughts about this sound clip

http://www.show.gr/zeoy/final_gtr_solo_bar104_135.mp3

it's a small guitar solo I recorded for a friend's track. It's only guitar but not totally dry. There is some delay+reverb but the actual sound is there. What do you think?

I don't like it, but that's a taste issue rather than an objective statement relating to whether it's good or not.

I do find it odd that people complain about the lack of decent amp-sims in terms of delivering that kind of tone though; I would have thought that most amp-sims could deliver a sound like your clip...

Maybe it's simply that I don't 'get' that style of music though. Maybe it's like your dad saying that all rap sound the same!

[championrabbit]

Also, have none of you consider attenuators? You can drive you amp hard, take a line-out from the attenuator and run it into an impulse of a speaker/mic while still piping some signal to your physical speaker cab to maintain interaction twixt speaker and guitar.

You should give it a try!