Opinions; W1 Limiter and TLS Pocket Limiter

[fabi]

The dropping volume bug is fixed.

http://hem.bredband.net/tbtaudio/vstplu ... r_v1-2.zip

.... and Michu! You should clean some stuff in your e-mail
inbox since it is full and refuse any more e-mails...

//Daniel

thank you very much - i think it might be my go-to limiter again.

[defjamm]

what kind of music?

Hip Hop

try clipping, a lot of the commercial stuff is clipped too.

Clipping is dangerous to audio equipment, especially to speakers when played at high volumes, but it can also damage Amps... a mathematical square wave is also not known in nature, so I wouldn't be surprised if it could damage your hearing as well...

then a lot of speakers worldwide would blow up, because a lot of modern music is simply clipped, rather then limited, because you don't achieve the same punch AND loudness without it(at the cost of distortion).

try

http://homepages.tesco.net/~graham.yead ... /gclip.htm

put softness to 0%, and clip to 99%, you won't damage anything, look at a peakmeter, it will peak at -0.1db.

offtopic: turrican was a great game, a real classic, played it on my amiga 500

[Lunch Money]

dj's right. The file can be "clipped," but all at 0dBu or less. You can't harm any equipment just with a sound file that has been clipped. During output you can crank up a signal source and clip its receiver, which can damage it. But that's nothing to do with whether a recording features clipped waveforms or not.

Greg

[Vendaval]

Hi!

BuzMaxi3.

Gretings,

[c_huelsbeck]

what kind of music?

Hip Hop

try clipping, a lot of the commercial stuff is clipped too.

Clipping is dangerous to audio equipment, especially to speakers when played at high volumes, but it can also damage Amps... a mathematical square wave is also not known in nature, so I wouldn't be surprised if it could damage your hearing as well...

then a lot of speakers worldwide would blow up, because a lot of modern music is simply clipped, rather then limited, because you don't achieve the same punch AND loudness without it(at the cost of distortion).

try

http://homepages.tesco.net/~graham.yead ... /gclip.htm

put softness to 0%, and clip to 99%, you won't damage anything, look at a peakmeter, it will peak at -0.1db.

offtopic: turrican was a great game, a real classic, played it on my amiga 500

Wow... I had no idea that it is commonplace in commercial music to use digital clipping, but hey , that would explain why so many things on the radio sound sh*te...

Well thanks that you like my music (punchy without the clipping, I hope )

[Lunch Money]

The simulation of analogue clipping using a plug-in (and therefore within the digital realm) isn't the same as digital clipping. Nor is the ultra-common "thick black line" style of limiting/compressing. Digital clipping is a harsh, horrific, and utterly unusable (except, as mentioned, as an effect) mess. It is certainly NOT used in any recordings that I'm aware of.

Using that GVST plug-in, for example, and you're doing waveshaping, not 'digital clipping'.

[_starcraft_]

I just a/b'ed 4 different limiters, and BUzMAxi 3 is by far the harshest when pushed, I didnt like it for heavy music, that I tend to record. As I said the Pocket Limiter and Elephant were very close and Wavelabs Peak Master did a very admirable job as well, to my surprise.

your a/b is screwed.
honestly....with heavy beat the kick remains solid and consistant in buzzmaxi3 even at extreme settings.....thing that can't be said about the other two limiters.
buzzmaxi3 is MUCH better ESPECIALLY when pushed.
(not tried the new update to pocket limiter)

[martian]

The simulation of analogue clipping using a plug-in (and therefore within the digital realm) isn't the same as digital clipping. Nor is the ultra-common "thick black line" style of limiting/compressing. Digital clipping is a harsh, horrific, and utterly unusable (except, as mentioned, as an effect) mess. It is certainly NOT used in any recordings that I'm aware of.

Using that GVST plug-in, for example, and you're doing waveshaping, not 'digital clipping'.

if you dont use the softness control then it is straight digital clipping (ie. no knee).

but if you also describe any occurrence of 3 or more consecutive samples at 0dbfs as digital clipping then even something with a softer knee will flat line eventually if you push it hard enough. from this perspective much of todays commerical masters are clipped (from coldplay to dr.dre).

really the only time i find digital/analog clipping actually works (read 'soncially acceptable') on the master is with transient heavy beat based material, where you can get away with a few db before much audible change, and up to a point it can be more transparent than limiting.

although its heavily abused in many masters: MJ 'billie jean' 2001 remaster, over 100 consecutive samples.

[martian]

I just a/b'ed 4 different limiters, and BUzMAxi 3 is by far the harshest when pushed, I didnt like it for heavy music, that I tend to record. As I said the Pocket Limiter and Elephant were very close and Wavelabs Peak Master did a very admirable job as well, to my surprise.

your a/b is screwed.
honestly....with heavy beat the kick remains solid and consistant in buzzmaxi3 even at extreme settings.....thing that can't be said about the other two limiters.
buzzmaxi3 is MUCH better ESPECIALLY when pushed.
(not tried the new update to pocket limiter)

i find buzmaxi3 (even 'agressive mode') pumps quite badly on heavy punchy material compared to elephant (max speed) for example.

[Lunch Money]

Having the waveform blackline at 0dB still isn't digital clipping. If you've ever heard those 'pops' from getting a digital over, you've heard digital clipping. You simply can't have a full song full of it, as it would sound like static, more or less.

Today's commercial CDs are pushed and hard-limited at 0dB, but they're not generally clipping. Sure, there might be some clipping hidden in there somewhere by someone who has done a poor job somewhere along the way, but by no means is it industry-standard or sought-after.

Greg

[martian]

Having the waveform blackline at 0dB still isn't digital clipping. If you've ever heard those 'pops' from getting a digital over, you've heard digital clipping. You simply can't have a full song full of it, as it would sound like static, more or less.

hitting over 0db with a harmonically coherent sustained instrument vs a drum transient (with many unrelated harmonics) is very different. the former is completely unacceptable by anyones standard, the latter is arguable.

in the words of bob catz (on hitting digital 0dbfs):

... a 3 to 6 sample over will often be inaudible with drums or percussion, but the ears may hear distortion with only a 1 sample over with piano material.

http://www.tcelectronic.com/TechLibrary

Today's commercial CDs are pushed and hard-limited at 0dB, but they're not generally clipping. Sure, there might be some clipping hidden in there somewhere by someone who has done a poor job somewhere along the way, but by no means is it industry-standard or sought-after.

Greg

try this. take an unmastered track and limit it +20db with any limiter. look at the waveform. you'll be hardpressed to find anywhere with many consecutive samples at 0db. what does that tell you?

[Lunch Money]

I'm convinced more than ever that you're not sure what you're talking about.

What he's saying is that with percussive material (which is already making a "pop" and "noise"-type sound) you might not notice a digital over, especially if it's only one sample. A piano, which is melodic and contains sine-like waveforms, will make overs more noticeable.

A full song contains a combination of all these kinds of sounds, and you can be assured that if you push your track so that it's registering greater than fullscale at many points, you will get completely unusable tracks as a result.

You can't really set a limiter to +20dBu, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with your example. Most limiters (all that I'm aware of, but since I haven't used them all, I don't want to say for 100% certain that it's all) have an upper limit of 0dBu, because it's fullscale and nobody in their right mind would want to limit at anything more than digital fullscale.

So, I can't really answer the question, "what does that tell you," because I can't picture what you're talking about!

[defjamm]

Having the waveform blackline at 0dB still isn't digital clipping. If you've ever heard those 'pops' from getting a digital over, you've heard digital clipping. You simply can't have a full song full of it, as it would sound like static, more or less.

Today's commercial CDs are pushed and hard-limited at 0dB, but they're not generally clipping. Sure, there might be some clipping hidden in there somewhere by someone who has done a poor job somewhere along the way, but by no means is it industry-standard or sought-after.

Greg

but the files were clipped at some point, just that after the clipping, the engineers bounced them, loaded them back and lowered the gain, so they won't clip.
it's called clipping in ozone3, it's called clipper in t-racks etc. so it is some form of clipping what you do to the file.

they are not clipping but they were clipped lol.

[Lunch Money]

Yes, but it's an imitation of analog clipping. It's not actual "digital clipping."

A separate but related point: you can't actually clip in 32-bit. Maybe in theory, but best of luck trying to pull it off. Pushing something above 0dB while mixing in the 32-bit (or for the most part, 24-bit) domain isn't actually clipping.

Greg

[Mr. Tingle]

your very patient greg.