KVR Audio

Leonardus · Post by **Leonardus** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:18 pm

Please help me with my understanding of this.

Waves L1 Limiter looks ahead. When you increase overall gain, it rewrites peaks over decibel level "x" into a frequency range that is not perceptable to human ears.

Is this how Linkin Park gets that wall of sound?

When my son listens to Linkin Park through his Walkman headphones, incredibly loud noise energy fills the living room. His ears perceive a really cool sounding massive wall of sound. From my vantage, I hear an extraordinary amount of energy being output from his headphones, what I hear is pure noise.

thx. Leonard

groovesys · Post by **groovesys** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:17 am

This is the primary reason I simply cannot listen to modern music. Everything is mastered so damn loud that it all ends up sounding like, as you said, pure noise. There is little stereo separation, and no dynamics. Frequencies mesh together and the whole track sounds like mud. And the worst part for me is the drums get buried in the track so they lose all their presence.

I don't know if Linkin Park used the L1 but I tried it once and hated it. It's a glorified loudness booster as is most of the so-called mastering plug-ins I've tried. I don't use them at all in my mixes. I want my mixes to have dynamics and stereo separation. I want to hear each individual instrument. I take my mixing queues from the fantastic recordings of the late 70s and early 80s.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:21 am

It's just a limiter. Which is definitely part of modern rock, but not "the" key ingredient. Layered and gated distorted guitars don't hurt.

defjamm · Post by **defjamm** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:42 am

the wall of sound comes through layering of the guitar sounds and effects. with loud aggressive guitars i would use some sort of clipping(the ad-converters or simply in your audio-program aka wave-shaping, right greg?) over something like the l1.

Vkingo · Post by **Vkingo** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:26 am

i preffer using IK's TRackS.

championrabbit · Post by **championrabbit** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:56 am

Lunch Money wrote:Layered and gated distorted guitars don't hurt.

I bet to differ!

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:59 am

Vkingo wrote:i preffer using IK's TRackS.

I used to use t:racks as well, until I discovered I got better results from NyquistEQ + Endorphin (+buzmaxi3 when appropriate).

I really enjoy using my owncompressor / soft clipper as well, I really should finish that one

Leonardus · Post by **Leonardus** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:49 pm

I'd like to wow my friends with a one-off freak piece utilizing this wall of sound. I think of it as "sound effect" in the theatrical sense.

There is a hi-res quality to that wall of sound. There isn't the slightest hint of sound pixelation in it (think- 1.3 meg camera image as compared to 12 meg camera image). What digital resolution is necessary to get there? Is my little Delta 66 card beefy enough?

Then, there's the question of compressors. I'm guessing high end compressor hardware contributes to the over all effect.

Thank for your contributions so far.

hmmm.. that beta compressor sure looks interesting[i/]

herr_prof · Post by **herr_prof** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:57 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound

Ildon · Post by **Ildon** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:06 pm

groovesys wrote:This is the primary reason I simply cannot listen to modern music. Everything is mastered so damn loud that it all ends up sounding like, as you said, pure noise. There is little stereo separation, and no dynamics. Frequencies mesh together and the whole track sounds like mud. And the worst part for me is the drums get buried in the track so they lose all their presence.

Mmhm, mmhm!

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:57 am

Leonardus wrote:I'd like to wow my friends with a one-off freak piece utilizing this wall of sound. I think of it as "sound effect" in the theatrical sense.

There is a hi-res quality to that wall of sound. There isn't the slightest hint of sound pixelation in it (think- 1.3 meg camera image as compared to 12 meg camera image). What digital resolution is necessary to get there? Is my little Delta 66 card beefy enough?

Then, there's the question of compressors. I'm guessing high end compressor hardware contributes to the over all effect.

Thank for your contributions so far.

hmmm.. that beta compressor sure looks interesting[i/]

As to resolution, you are hearing it at 16/44.1 on a CD so it's standard resolution, but major studios all have high end analog/digital converters so that affects the quality of sound. It's hard to listen to pro studio recordings and pin down what makes tham sound great, since highly skilled engineers play a major role in getting "the sound". A nice rackmount mic pre and comp probably played a role in the guitar sound you're hearing.

Lunch Money is totally right, though. "Wall of guitars" is a sound that goes back even to the 60's so its nothing new, it's just gotten more distorted. I can almost guarantee you won't get it without multi-tracking preferably two or three different guitars and amps, maybe two to four times each, and use panning to spread them out. Close and far mic'ing mixed up between takes will help also.

This is real studio stuff. It can't be achieved solely with software.

As far as huge sounding limiters, my two favorites are both free. BuzMaxi 2 and TbT Pocket Limiter. The Prgress Audio free compressor is also nice for more open but still forceful compression.

EJo · Post by **EJo** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:32 pm

(removed)

Muzik 4 Machines · Post by **Muzik 4 Machines** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:36 pm

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/ ... .html#room
interesting_read

Peel · Post by **Peel** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:47 pm

cyberpink wrote:http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/ ... .html#room
interesting_read

This is an amazing spiel. Tonnes of useful info in here.

lydianguy · Post by **lydianguy** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:40 am

Linkin Park only use one kind of amp, Mesa Boogie Dual/Triple Rectifiers. If you want a mesa stack though it's going to cost you around £2500 for the head, then an extra grand on top for the cabs. As for mics, the primary instrument mic used by guitarists is the good old, trusty Shure SM57.

I'm a guitar teacher, and I've had alot of recording experience, so I can offer you advice purely from a performance aspect. The Mesa Boogie rectifiers are the main tool used to create that 'Nu-Metal' sound, and 99.9% of nu-metallers use them. As far as layering and performing these tracks go, yes you need immaculate timing for it to sound professional (this is the most important aspect in regards to recording this type of music), but if you're an advanced guitarist power chord riffs are extremely easy to pull off.

Nothing beats the real thing though, and if you want 'that sound' badly enough, I would recommend investing in the following pieces of equipment:-

Guitar = Ibanez 7-string (a prestige, Jem, or any other high end model over £1200).

Amp = Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier head + Cabinet (£3500 total cost. This is the most essential item!)

Mic = Shure sm57 (this will more than suffice, but no doubt other mics were used and experimented with during recording).

Hope this helps! Now all you need is a recording tech-head to steer you in the right direction as far as mic-pres go. Joe Meeks are quite good from what I've heard though.

~Ryan

Can I get that Linkin Park wall of sound with L1?