KVR Audio

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:22 pm

"automatically warp to a projects tempo"

you call that automatically?

lol

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:30 pm

soulkraka wrote:
headquest wrote: 2) Live's ability to instantly warp audio to fit the project tempo is unusual if not unique. I have no idea how you could even attempt that in FL.

actually, thats one of FL's strong points IMHO.
You can either:

A) right click an audio file in the browser and select "Open in new slicer channel" or..

B) same procedure but choose the granulizer instead of the slicer.
or...

C) drop an audio file in the time line, right click the time knob and select 1 beat, 2 beats, 1 bar , 4 bars etc etc.
or....

D) drop an audio file in the timeline and drag the right edge to stretch/compress.

FL also plays loops in time when you audition from the browser like Live does.

That's interesting - thanks. But presumably it doesn't do all that live in real time with gapless audio?

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:37 pm

no, but pretty close. If you choose the "open in slicer" option FL automatically lays it out on the piano roll for you. Your then free to paint in the patterns where you need them in the playlist.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:43 pm

Okay, but not the same thing at all as the gapless audio, instant automatic timestretching that Ableton is known for

- one of the things that surely sets Ableton apart from FL and most other stuff in fact.

Ultimately - and this is the other real difference between the two: "Ableton has changed the whole way that people can work with samples" (quoted from a Coldcut interview I watched last night

).

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:52 pm

headquest wrote:
Ultimately - and this is the other real difference between the two: "Ableton has changed the whole way that people can work with samples" (quoted from a Coldcut interview I watched last night ).

Thats the thing that turns me off about Live. If I try to manipulate the sample by altering pitches of certain notes etc etc the artifiacts are just way to noticable. I'd much rather wait the one second for FL to process it and have it sound good.

"complex mode" is a definate improvement though (but 10% CPU just to play back one loop? no thanks)

also, just for the sake of comparison:

Live
click 1 = drag sample to slot.
click 2 = trigger sample
the music never stops.

FL
click 1 = right click and select the slicer option.
click 2 = paint it in the playlist
the music never stops.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:57 pm

I believe that the timestretch algorithm licensed by Image Line for use in FL is the same one that is in Live.

So they sound the same... except that FL doesn't have the complex mode.

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:00 pm

Live doesnt slice.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:03 pm

No - it uses non-destructive warp markers instead. What's your point?

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:22 pm

My point? That theres an additional option in FL, slicing wav files. Some people prefer this over the granular timestretch used in Live.

That said, you could always just use a third party vst, like phatmatik or microdicer, in Live if you prefer this method of timestretching.

Havent you ever had any issues with sound quality when your altering rhythms with warp markers, pitching stuff etc?

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:24 pm

I didn't get the whole warp markers & clip envelopes thing in live at first.
Possibly because I rarely bounced down to audio.
but they are powerful in a very different way from sliced audio - very creative tools indeed that can commit all kinds of fuckdoogery on your audio files.
Since becoming acquainted with live I tend to bounce down a lot more - mostly so that I can take advantage of warp markers & clip envelopes.

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:41 pm

ya, it can be fun to "abuse" the warp markers. You can create some cool fills and efx.

I wouldnt be surprised if an upcoming version of Live (6 or 7) had a built in slicer with some cool amenities like multiouts and per slice filters.

as far as clip envelopes go...

brilliant. Session view and clip envelopes are what keep me coming back to Live. The Midi features are what make me want to leave.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:07 pm

soulkraka wrote:My point? That theres an additional option in FL, slicing wav files. Some people prefer this over the granular timestretch used in Live.

Sure. FL is a great programme and it has a few tricks up its sleeve that Live doesn't have. But I personally prefer Ableton for the reasons I listed.

Havent you ever had any issues with sound quality when your altering rhythms with warp markers, pitching stuff etc?

I did when I first used it, but then I spent a bit longer learning how the four (five now of course) different timestretch modes worked, what they are capable of, etc.

And as you now said, "abusing" the warp markers can be fun and by deliberately pushing beyond the limits you can get all sorts of silly effects. But I was talking about using the feature within normal limits.

In terms of comparissons I use REX sliced loops in Reason, Acid loops in Sonar and ABleton's warp markers. They are all pretty good

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:08 pm

integrated slicing, possibly rex file support also would be a nice addition.

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:29 am

groove quantize, a'la logic, acid etc, would be fantastic.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:37 am

soulkraka wrote:groove quantize, a'la logic, acid etc, would be fantastic.

In Live 5 you can actually Groove Quantise AUDIO [by copying and pasting warp markers from one complete audio track to another] - something I am not aware that any other programme can do! (For full information see the recent tutorial on the subject in Sound on Sound - or ask and I'll explain more!)

So for MIDI you could simply bounce to audio and then Groove Quantise.

Once again, this is very much the sort of thing that makes Ableton a unique and very special piece of music software that stands out from not only FL, but from all the rest!

But yes, a direct MIDI groove quantise would also be nice.

ableton live5 compared to fls6xxl?