*sold*

[headquest]

Personally, i think if you have got as far as writing a whole song and adding FX and automation etc, and then you decide to change the synth, you need to check your head. You should know a lot earlier on if that sound fits or not.

In general I agree, although I find a lot of synths have very impressive phat presents that are inspiring and sound great... until you come to try mixing it all together. Sometimes I find I need to scale things down at the mixing stage, which can either be done with a pile of filtering, or (sometimes easier) opting for a different synth or patch. It's at least nice to retain the option...

[Kriminal]

It's at least nice to retain the option...

true

[original flipper]

HI

The 'replace' command in XT seem's so obvious ... you take it for granted.

The 'Automation' in Live epitomizes a design philosophy that screams out: don't confuse the suckers!

So many hosts, so many variable features !

Flipper.

[jens]

With regards to replacing a synth, i spoke ro Rich, he says its possible, so it may well make its way into next version. im waiting on a new beta today for some other new stuff and fixes.

Thanks for the info.

that's the right attitude from both of you!


(instead of saying 'where's the prob?')

Well, its a good example of...'if you dont ask, you dont get' and someone actually took the time to explain it properly, and i thought it sounded quite cool, as does Rich, so it will prob happen.

Most ppl tend to say 'it cant do this or that' and leave it, they dont mail the dev or ask at the forum, in which case nothing gets sorted, which is a shame.

yes, I absolutely agree! (a few days ago I said that threads @ kvr about hosts are 99% nonsense-talk like 'X is 20% better than Y' and I think this is mostly due to people neither really knowing X nor Y but still thinking they've got a strong & valid opinion...

[jens]

Personally, i think if you have got as far as writing a whole song and adding FX and automation etc, and then you decide to change the synth, you need to check your head. You should know a lot earlier on if that sound fits or not.

In general I agree, although I find a lot of synths have very impressive phat presents that are inspiring and sound great... until you come to try mixing it all together. Sometimes I find I need to scale things down at the mixing stage, which can either be done with a pile of filtering, or (sometimes easier) opting for a different synth or patch. It's at least nice to retain the option...

what if I e.g. want to make an acoustic-ballad remix out of a drum&bass-tune?

[speccyteccy]

Matbe he means multi audio outs from soundcard???

Still works.

Get ext btw.

[headquest]

Personally, i think if you have got as far as writing a whole song and adding FX and automation etc, and then you decide to change the synth, you need to check your head. You should know a lot earlier on if that sound fits or not.

In general I agree, although I find a lot of synths have very impressive phat presents that are inspiring and sound great... until you come to try mixing it all together. Sometimes I find I need to scale things down at the mixing stage, which can either be done with a pile of filtering, or (sometimes easier) opting for a different synth or patch. It's at least nice to retain the option...

what if I e.g. want to make an acoustic-ballad remix out of a drum&bass-tune?

That would be fun (and suprisingly easy in Ableton)... but would indeed definitely involve substituting some instruments

[fandango]

Most ppl tend to say 'it cant do this or that' and leave it, they dont mail the dev or ask at the forum, in which case nothing gets sorted, which is a shame.

Well, they usually do, and then BONES comes in and tells them that they're a feature-bloating idiot and that their workflow is inadequate... (though, sometimes it's true...)

[jens]

though, sometimes it's true...

but I think Bones is the last person on earth to know when that's really the case...

[Kriminal]

Most ppl tend to say 'it cant do this or that' and leave it, they dont mail the dev or ask at the forum, in which case nothing gets sorted, which is a shame.

Well, they usually do, and then BONES comes in and tells them that they're a feature-bloating idiot and that their workflow is inadequate... (though, sometimes it's true...)

no, most ppl just say 'host XXX is buggy, i stopped using it cos it crashes' and then fail to expand on that. The fact they never accuratly reported the bugs in the correct place is their own fault that it isnt fixed.

[Sascha Franck]

I didn't even know there existed a host wherein replacing a VSTi was that convoluted as in Orion. I mean, seriously, it's just the most common thing for me to do in Logic, SX and partially also eXT. Takes a few clicks to get me to the VST selection box and there we go. Obviously anything else will stay intact (apart from automation data in both Logic and SX, your mileage about liking it or not may vary on that, seems as if the eXT approach is better).

But then, Krim is spot on, usually people just let the developers go unnoticed. For whatever reason...

[Kriminal]

But then, Krim is spot on

i usually am

[Kriminal]

Actually the lockup while editing a note was more or less my first experience too, after buying OP (because guys like BONES and others are very enthusiastic about it and the pattern-based paradigm fits my workflow). So far every session with OP I've had at least 1 crash. That means after 1 week of using it, I consider it another learning experience, but not a stable tool to create songs with.

Can you give step by step deatils of how this occurs, with sys spec too, and i will try to reproduce it, and also report it to the beta forum

cheers.

It mostly happens when CPU usage is at a decent level (at least 50%) and one is moving note lengths around as the playback head passes through something you are touching. It's completely unpredictable but it eventually happens. I don't think I've ever had an Orion session that didn't crash at least a few times due to this phenomenon.

Well, ive been trying really hard to reproduce this tonight, and no luck at all, and i really gave it some stick. As you havent used OP for a while, maybe it was fixed, i seem to remember it was mentioned a few times a long time back, prob TLS, so it could be a prob that was resovled

[BONES]

Jeez.It's this kind of thing that makes me just shake my head in some kind of resignation at how you tirelessly defend this ill-conceived program. Because who in their right mind would want to leave a CPU-hogging instance of a synth and all the FX applied to it in a song merely to use it as the source of MIDI information which will be controlling another CPU-hogging instrument of some kind?

Well, until you find the right instrument to replace the one you're using, it is the smartest way to ensure you don't end up with anything worse than what you had. You'd have to be pretty dumb to blindly replace on instrument with another without any way to A/B compare them and decide that the change is actually worthwhile, wouldn't you? So when I read your post it seems that you are being critical of a product because it doesn't support poor workflow. I replace instruments in our old songs on a fairly regular basis and even if I could easily drag 'n' drop or swap out an instrument, I can't imagine a scenario when I would find a use for it, unless I could first clone all of those settings into a fresh channel.

Oh yes, Orion is all about the scrolling and screen noise with every instrument and effect taking up more space as you add them. One has to squint like an old grandma to even read that crap in a large song. LOL. THEN YOU HAVE TO delete the synth you don't want. THEN YOU HAVE TO go back to that God awful giant mixer and re-label the new synth so that you can make sense of it later on down the road. THEN YOU HAVE TO scroll back across a massive green tundra of channels that are an inch wide at some point to adjust the volume of the new synth... Unbelievable. I can't believe I ever got any work done in it.

So you don't like the default skin? Don't use it. My ORION has every single thing right at my finger tips. Nothing is more than one mouse click away at any time and it all fits on the screen at the same time without any f**king about. I can look at as many instrument GUI's as I like at the same time and all my Piano Rolls are right where I can get at 'em quickly and efficiently. It is far and away the most efficient and flexible GUI I have come across.

[M'Snah]

Well, ive been trying really hard to reproduce this tonight, and no luck at all, and i really gave it some stick. As you havent used OP for a while, maybe it was fixed, i seem to remember it was mentioned a few times a long time back, prob TLS, so it could be a prob that was resovled

For me the error occurred one or two weeks ago, I only have OP that long.

no, most ppl just say 'host XXX is buggy, i stopped using it cos it crashes' and then fail to expand on that. The fact they never accuratly reported the bugs in the correct place is their own fault that it isnt fixed.

I agree. Although I'll never say host XXX is buggy, I just stop using it. And reporting bugs... I do that when I'm beta-testing or when I've used a product long or intensive enough to feel committed to the developer. Otherwise I usually just find workarounds. (e.g. my workaround for ACID's VSTi problems is to not use my VSTi's in ACID :S)