KVR Audio

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:49 pm

That's cool, diverdee. My point is never that it's not a bug, but that even if other users are unaware of this response, Mackie HAS officially stated that the dropped first note requires an engine overhaul. In my opinion (not part of Mackie's official statement), this is not likely to happen in T2.x. Engine overhauls are traditionally (for all companies) full-point upgrades.

Yes, it's a known and outstanding issue, but the reason it's not fixed isn't because of unresponsive developers, as headquest seems to continue implying.

That's all.

Mackie's e-mail notification system is poor at best. That doesn't mean that updates aren't quick and responsive. I wonder if HQ knew about the international language patch that came out within days of it being reported? Probably not. Which is fine, since he's not a Tracktioneer, but it illustrates my point that he's out of the loop and therefore his ancient points, which were either illogical or already addressed, should be dropped altogether. The expiration date on his arguments has long passed.

Greg

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:08 pm

Not meaning to derail this thread, then it's already been sidetracked.
Shame about that needing a complete overhaul to fix.
As far as bug squashing etc., from my personal perspective (being a mainly midi guy) some of the issues (looping options with midi etc.) did appear to me to take an overly long time to sort out, but then I wasn't bothered personally as i'd moved on.
Again these were issues that likely didn't effect a fair number of tracktioneers, as it was my perception (which could be mistaken) that an overwhelming proportion of them, especially the more experienced ones (including yourself) were pretty much self confessed audio only or mainly audio guys with a predominantly linear workflow (which tracktion excels at dealing with).
It's good that many of these issues have now been addressed, although I still perceive (again just my personal perception, based on comparison with other developers practices) that mackies communication often seems somewhat lacking.
Just for the record I also found the atmosphere in the RMS forum overly defensive & aggressive & also received more than a few pm's from others who were virtually afraid to post concerning bugs, shortcomings etc. for fear of being shouted down by those whose workflow/experience didn't match theirs & who seemed unable to understand/empathise with their issues & again seemed to perceive negative posts as an attack on tracktion & therefore responded in a defensive & often aggresive & insulting manner.

Anyway i'll shut up now & get back to listening to music.

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:09 pm

Lunch Money wrote:Mackie's e-mail notification system is poor at best. That doesn't mean that updates aren't quick and responsive. I wonder if HQ knew about the international language patch that came out within days of it being reported? Probably not. Which is fine, since he's not a Tracktioneer, but it illustrates my point that he's out of the loop and therefore his ancient points, which were either illogical or already addressed, should be dropped altogether. The expiration date on his arguments has long passed.

Greg

Slightly off-topic, but I really would like them to fix the input popup menu selector for when you use per-track input... It's such a hassle because if you have 5 potential input devices and the one you want is the 4th down, you select it, and it selects the 2nd down, you select it again, and 3rd, and finally again and it's 4th.. horrible. This is basic and needs to be fixed badly!

Igor 4000 · Post by **Igor 4000** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:17 pm

Just an observation as an impartial observer: if any of you are planning on posting any of these "which host is better" or "what's the difference between" discussions in the future, please do us all a favor and try the demo first. That way there is a chance that you might actually answer your own questions and thereby help reduce these ridiculous bitchfests that erupt from these types of duscussions.

Thanks in advance.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:19 pm

Lunch Money wrote:I wouldn't even be here if HQ hadn't mentioned Tracktion.

So which of your buddies tipped you off that I'd mentioned the "T" word?

Lunch Money wrote: it illustrates my point that he's out of the loop and therefore his ancient points, which were either illogical or already addressed, should be dropped altogether. The expiration date on his arguments has long passed.

Lunch Money wrote: It's unfortunate that it's in one ear and out the other a lot of the time

Lunch Money wrote: headquest, unfortunately, always goes to illogical points that don't "follow," to which I find myself responding in what eventually becomes a 9-page thread with the end result being that he still doesn't see any of the points I've made and therefore brings them up again

Ah. So in fact I'm just an idiot.

That explains it then.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:23 pm

diverdee wrote: Just for the record I also found the atmosphere in the RMS forum overly defensive & aggressive & also received more than a few pm's from others who were virtually afraid to post concerning bugs, shortcomings etc. for fear of being shouted down by those whose workflow/experience didn't match theirs & who seemed unable to understand/empathise with their issues & again seemed to perceive negative posts as an attack on tracktion & therefore responded in a defensive & often aggresive & insulting manner.

Thanks for stepping up to say that, diverdee. Just before these guys completely write me off as a parnoid delusional!

It's a relief to know that I didn't imagine the fact that there are actually a whole bunch of us who have personally experienced the "defensive and often aggressive & insulting manner". Glad that it wasn't just me after all who became afraid to even post on the RMS forum because of the personal attacks, etc.

Phew! For a moment there I thought I was going nuts!

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:24 pm

Damn - just as an edit to my previous posts:
I don't what it to sound as though i'm dissing tracktion - i'm not.
I still regularly reccommend it to people, with certain caveats.
It may not have been right for me, as some of the bugs & missing features that were manifest at that time were ones that I personally found troublesome.
But depending on another potential users needs & workflow, & considering all that is included in the T2 box (at a very reasonable price) it is still an absolutely outstanding piece of software, at once simple to use & capable of being extremely deep & complex.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:33 pm

diverdee wrote: I still regularly reccommend it to people, with certain caveats.
It may not have been right for me, as some of the bugs & missing features that were manifest at that time were ones that I personally found troublesome.
But depending on another potential users needs & workflow, & considering all that is included in the T2 box (at a very reasonable price) it is still an absolutely outstanding piece of software, at once simple to use & capable of being extremely deep & complex.

I absolutely agree, and I do the same as it happens.

In fact I was praising Tracktion on another thread here just today!

(The TP stood in attendance and closely monitored my behaviour, but had no need to step in or caution me on that occasion

)

AD80 · Post by **AD80** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:07 pm

headquest wrote:
Or AD80 for that matter... given how much he appears to have it in for Live and its users, there can be only one reason for his appearance.

Yes, you caught me Genius. I have it in for Live and its users. ALL its users.

Including MYSELF!!!!! I HATE MYSELF SO MUCH!!!!

How do you know I'm not a huge FL fan? How do you know I'm not using Live to deal with samples since Tracktions time-stretch is a joke? Oh that's right you DONT KNOW.

For the record if I had to choose between FL and Live I would choose Live. Simply because they're both good pattern based sequencers, but Live can also be a good linear based sequencer. Period.

Does that surprise you HQ? Well it shouldn't. Contrary to that remark you just pulled out of your a$$, I've never "had it in" for Live or its users. I've never slagged of Live! I haven't said one bad thing about Live in this thread matter a fact. So for you to randomly decide that I hate Live and its users is just another one of your famous paranoid delusions based on absolutely nothing.

On the other hand, I can do a search and find dozens of examples of you slagging off Tracktion (most of the time with vague general statements that you have no evidence of). You have some vendetta against Tracktion ever since that little "school incident". So don't try to act like you're just another unbiased user that just wants to express his dislike of Tracktion. You have a long history of this, so don't be surprised when you get the same reaction.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:53 pm

So as well as an me being an idiot (Lunch Money) I'm also a paranoid delusional (AD80)? [not sure if those two things are technically compatible though...

]

Nice

Keep it coming guys - you're really showing your true colours

drez · Post by **drez** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:09 pm

this isn't the post you were looking for...move along...move along.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:15 pm

Peter Martin · Post by **Peter Martin** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:23 pm

Its awesome to hear about so many bright people on this board knowing whats up.

FL as a composition tool for music is so predictiable, which makes it brilliant. Why? I won't want too much or anything wierd in my sequencer. Everything else Cubase/Abelton/ect all have too much crap to worry about instead of just writing. This makes for much more open musical opportunites.

Push your loops into Nuendo, engineer, and jam them out in Abelton.

I see Abelton doing the live performance, while Nuendo/Cubase doing the final 'studio cuts'. Live's mixing engine is far too poor for that kind of stuff to my ears.

Using every tool at a persons disposal is a very smart and fun way to work.

Peter Martin · Post by **Peter Martin** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:28 pm

Not sure I understand the slagging in reference to other things.

I don't understand peoples ability to give sh*t to other people about what they use or how they do something. Put the egos down people, because it makes for sh*ttier art.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:31 pm

AD80 wrote: You have some vendetta against Tracktion ever since that little "school incident".

Actually I do have to respond to that one because it's niggling me!

The "little school incident" you refered to is probably the one that could in fact have seen Tracktion 2 in use in classrooms across the UK by literally thousands of kids.

If I had gone to Mackie properly explaining the situation in terms of possible sales I bet they would have jumped for it, but instead I was keen to see how they would treat the ordinary user. And I did learn exactly how they treat their ordinary users. They basically ignore them. So they lost out on a great opportunity. Seriously!

But that was their loss, not mine, so there's no vendetta on that account. In fact, in the meantime a much bigger player in the industry has actually come to me...

ableton live5 compared to fls6xxl?