ableton live5 compared to fls6xxl?

[diverdee]

I mentioned in another thread (the CM host one) about a lost opportunity for mackie.
The lack of a discount for educational establishments etc. was another case where the ball was dropped (imo).
Selling schools etc. your software at a significant discount, especially if you can do it in bulk seems like a no-brainer to me.
Get those kids used to your software, if not hooked.
Not only are you making money from selling the software (even if at a discount), but you are gaining a great deal of exposure & at least some of those kids will probably want the software for themselves at home - chrissy pressies etc. - generates more sales, wider exposure.
Mackie really have made some strange marketing decisions, again that is just my opinionion.

[headquest]

Absolutely. Cubase is the best seller in the UK because it's the one used in most schools. It's really that simple. If the schools are using a piece of software it becomes a household name and the market leader in its field. End of. But let's not get further caught up in all that

[ModuLR]

All I can say headquest is thank you for side stepping every key point made in my last post. You have sucessfuly let your "assumpltion" that a tracktion user (me) was trying to discredit you.. turn this entire thread into a mess. I will repeat it again, Tracktion had nothing to do with my statement. You can't even acknowledge that you drug me into this shit... did you even glance at your own words? bringing my name into this repeatedly? And now all you can do is fall back on the tracktion gang is attackting me... whatever man. The source of this entire thing had nothing do with tracktion. Why don't you just step up and admit that I didn't do anything wrong. Stop lumping me with the group. Let's get to the source of what spun this out of control. It was my comment to you... and it has nothing to do with tracktion. It has to do with your over sensativity to me even suggesting that Live5 has issues. That is when you freaked out. Not really any different than what you suggest about the "Tracktion Police". Thus the pot calling the kettle black.

You brought the tracktion shit on yourself, and it's odd that you opt to solely focus on Tracktion and getting into it with Tracktion users instead of addressing my points. Leave tracktion out of this entire thing. Go back and read what lead up to what I wrote... can you even admit you did me wrong? Stop being over sensitive, and stop playing the Tracktion user hate me card, stop with the I'm getting PM's from people backing me up... because I really don't care. This entire shit pisses me off being refered to as a troll, or making statements like "I don't know what's happend to ModuLR.. maybe people change..." simply because I made a statement that is entirely based in truth... meanwhile you made an initial comment that was in fact misleading and false with regards to Live. You basically tried to check me... suggesting that I was full of non sense... and in return got called out on this bs.

Focus on the real issue here.. and stop ridding on the waves of chaos which followed.

[headquest]

@ ModuLR:
In fact I wrote on page 7:

If that offended you, I appologize.

Accepted. And if your off topic posts - followed by the appearance of the Tracktion beta testing team in force to put me down - were not intended as a personal attack then I appologise for taking them that way.

If you were intentionally personally atacking you then I have nothing to say. But assuming that was not the case I misunderstood you... and have already apologised. Perhaps you missed that in the subsequent debate. But I meant it.
And the posts made since then are also valid, so let's stick with where we're now at rather than going back . Seems to me you're now the one doing the "distracting"...

[AD80]

If I had gone to Mackie properly explaining the situation in terms of possible sales I bet they would have jumped for it...

Uhhm, I think most companies would prefer somebody explaining the situation properly as opposed to ranting and PM'ing on a forum.

And has it ever occurred to you that maybe the timing wasn't right? Maybe Mackie was still working out a deal with Jules, maybe they were too busy getting Tracktion into the distribution channel, Maybe they were preoccupied with getting Tracktion Ad's in magazines etc. Any number of things is possible.

But that was their loss, not mine, so there's no vendetta on that account. In fact, in the meantime a much bigger player in the industry has actually come to me...

Fantastic. So it worked out for everybody in the end. I hope you got your percentage from this 6 digit executive deal you just pulled off single handed-ly.

[headquest]

Fantastic. So it worked out for everybody in the end.

Well not exactly. Tracktion is not in schools/educational press.

I hope you got your percentage from this 6 digit executive deal you just pulled off single handed-ly.

I wish. Sure I'll get paid for the stuff I do, but it's not about money. It's about ensuring that schools and pupils get something reliable that will support their further learning.

As for the other part of your post, because I am well known in educational circles I can get treatment that is different to pupils or schools buying in bulk. But I consider it part of my responsibility when investigating potential products to see what any ordinary customer gets, be they a teenage pupil or a school asking for help. Only up to a point of course

[ModuLR]

@ ModuLR:
In fact I wrote on page 7:

If that offended you, I appologize.

Accepted. And if your off topic posts - followed by the appearance of the Tracktion beta testing team in force to put me down - were not intended as a personal attack then I appologise for taking them that way.

If you were intentionally personally atacking you then I have nothing to say. But assuming that was not the case I misunderstood you... and have already apologised. Perhaps you missed that in the subsequent debate. But I meant it.
And the posts made since then are also valid, so let's stick with where we're now at rather than going back . Seems to me you're now the one doing the "distracting"...

No distraction attempts here, Ive been solely focused on what started this.. It just never felt like much of an appology headquest.. especially since my posts were not off topic. They were (1) correcting your misinformation, and (2) light heartedly stating everything isn't perfect in Live5 world. But whatever, seems like this is the best I'll get... if you want to continue the Tracktion fued go right ahead.. as I have no reason to participate in that.

[soulkraka]

FFS

[Lunch Money]

What the heck, HQ. I never said you were an idiot. I said that you continue to make the same statements (which you do) and that I continually find myself repeating the same points (which I do, and I even shoulder the blame for that side of it... it's a bad habit of mine).

Anything beyond that is on you, mate.

It's a real chore trying to be civil when you keep making gross assumptions about my character, and passing them off as if the world agrees with you. Anybody who thinks I've been "police-like" has never understood me. The only thing I'm militant about is logic. I'm the "logic" police, not the Tracktion police. I happen to be a Tracktioneer, which means I'm in that forum a lot. When people say illogical things, I tend to point it out.

It isn't at all deeper than that, and if you or anyone else thinks otherwise, I can't imagine changing your mind in 500 words or less, and it'd be exhausting. I know myself and I know my own intentions. That you've misrepresented them and mis-stated them is your own problem now.

Take care... hope you get less angry soon...

Greg

[fandango]

----------------------8<------------------------

[headquest]

Greg, for somebody who is so logical and all, it's a pity you didn't/couldn't answer my simple question:

I wouldn't even be here if HQ hadn't mentioned Tracktion.

So which of your buddies tipped you off that I'd mentioned the "T" word?

Leaving aside the question of why you "need" to post whenever I mention Tracktion (which, lets face it, speaks for itself), I imagine everyone has pretty much forgotten by now what terrible use of my free speech it was that brought down this whole mess. So here it is, from page two:

Personally I have used Live since version 2 and not had a single crash . The only music software that ever gave me serious stability problems was Tracktion 2, but that's a whole other story.

In other words, I had stability problems running Tracktion on my system, but let's leave that for another thread. We were actually discussing Ableton Live (and FL Studio) which in case you didn't notice is the topic of this thread. Clearly from that quote I stated that I didn't want to discuss Tracktion here.

So then, shortly afterwards on that page, ModuLR added his first contriution, not about FL or Live at all, but it appeared simply to make me look stupid for not knowing about one of Acid's features. The emoticon seemed to me to make that point, and in view of my ongoing experiences with some of you guys, I feared the worst. I'm glad that ModuLR has insisted he meant no harm, and we have both apologised to each other. But in the banter that ensued I said:

Certainly bugs occur in Ableton. But they release patches roughtly every two-to-three months, all year, every year. Occasionally you do get people having tantrums on their forum and claiming they are leaving for another programme (as with most programmes it seems). But usually you see the same person back a few weeks later saying that Live is, after all, the best thing since sliced bread. I think that is very different from the droves who have completely given up on Acid (or Tracktion) over recent years.

Oh dear - there it is - the "T" word again. Shocking to suggest that anyone's stopped using it, even in parenthesis. Just moments later pHz chipped in with this:

cheap derailing shot with that unnecessary aside ... evidence please ... you KNOW im not talking about acid (i agree with on that part of the comment) ... quit stalling ...

Talk about "derailing" - there was nothing in pHz's post about FL or Live at all! - just a personal attack and provokation. I had clearly stated that I had no interest in discussing Tracktion but he insisted anyway! Not that I expect him to apologise or own up to "stirring" of course . And then your first response came around 20 minutes later Greg:

bah

Nothing there about FL or Live either. Just a cryptic comment to announce to pHz and me that you had arrived on the scene. Later on, pHz slipped away after his "my work is done here" remark, although I did persuad him to actually answer the original post before slinking away. AD80 came in as a substitute, announcing his arrival with the stirling:

Oh boy, Headquest is at it again.
Hay did you know its possible to talk about Live without mentioning Tracktion? Just letting you know in case you didn't realise. They added that extra feature in version 5.

...proving that he hadn't read my earlier posts in which I had said that I didn't see this thread as the place to discuss Tracktion. He also chose to ignore the fact that it was pHz who basically stirred the whole argument up.

So here we are on page 9, not really talking about FL or Live at all anymore. Just yet another Tracktion-derailed thread.

Of the five of us [me, ModuLR, pHz, Lunch Money and AD80] it seems that I am the only one here who came intending to post about either FL or Live at all. The rest of you jumped in for other reasons.

You are free to do so of course (just as I am free to disagree with you). But if you don't want people to personify you are the "Tracktion Police" (said in light-hearted jest by the way ) then you really need to stop behaving that way, and derailing threads with your defensiveness and personal attacks.

And in terms of logic, you seem to think that by continually repreating your "logical" arguements I will eventually see the light in some way. Dude, political opponents can both put forward very logical, persuasive arguments... but still disagree! I disagree with you - get over it! (And although you didn't call me an "idiot" your quotes that I listed above did amount to that... and worse).

Well now you guys have tired me out. I'm done with trying to argue with the four of you. I came here to post about FL/Live. It saddens me no end that you can't let people express their own thoughts, experiences and ideas without ganging up to shout them down. If this is what KVR has come to (just like the RMS forum before it) then I'm outta here. Adieu.

[Lunch Money]

See, you're doing it again. I'm sorry that you don't get it, and I'm sorry that my entire post was lost on you. This is what happens: I try to explain things, and you continue being adversarial. No wonder you're tired.

Greg

[headquest]

Wow. You completely evaded the question yet again

[headquest]

Okay, seeing as you guys apparently aren't going to ever see the issue here, it's time for some new rules:

(1) I've changed my signature (see below). This will really simplify things, and enable me to use my time more productively!

(2) From now on the Tracktion Police are [muted members] or at least I'm going to ignore the lot of you (you ignore my points anyway, so I'll ignore yours!). Again, it will save me from getting drawn into silly arguments with people that find it amusing to goad me (crumbs - just how immature IS that?!)

toodle pip.

[ModuLR]

Greg, for somebody who is so logical and all, it's a pity you didn't/couldn't answer my simple question:

I wouldn't even be here if HQ hadn't mentioned Tracktion.

So which of your buddies tipped you off that I'd mentioned the "T" word?

Leaving aside the question of why you "need" to post whenever I mention Tracktion (which, lets face it, speaks for itself), I imagine everyone has pretty much forgotten by now what terrible use of my free speech it was that brought down this whole mess. So here it is, from page two:

Personally I have used Live since version 2 and not had a single crash . The only music software that ever gave me serious stability problems was Tracktion 2, but that's a whole other story.

In other words, I had stability problems running Tracktion on my system, but let's leave that for another thread. We were actually discussing Ableton Live (and FL Studio) which in case you didn't notice is the topic of this thread. Clearly from that quote I stated that I didn't want to discuss Tracktion here.

So then, shortly afterwards on that page, ModuLR added his first contriution, not about FL or Live at all, but it appeared simply to make me look stupid for not knowing about one of Acid's features. The emoticon seemed to me to make that point, and in view of my ongoing experiences with some of you guys, I feared the worst. I'm glad that ModuLR has insisted he meant no harm, and we have both apologised to each other. But in the banter that ensued I said:

Headquest, you are really irritating me right now. Once again, you have made a flat out false statement.. and once again you have drug my name in to this mess. For whatever reason you insist on not seeing the truth, even tho it's right in front of your face. Although I have said it repeatedly, you can't seem to own up to the order of events. Let's take a look...

(1)

groove quantize, a'la logic, acid etc, would be fantastic.

In Live 5 you can actually Groove Quantise AUDIO [by copying and pasting warp markers from one complete audio track to another] - something I am not aware that any other programme can do! (For full information see the recent tutorial on the subject in Sound on Sound - or ask and I'll explain more!)

So for MIDI you could simply bounce to audio and then Groove Quantise.

Once again, this is very much the sort of thing that makes Ableton a unique and very special piece of music software that stands out from not only FL, but from all the rest!

But yes, a direct MIDI groove quantise would also be nice.

uhh... Acid can groove quantize audio AND midi...

Point: Audio groove quantize is not a unique feature to Live...

(2)

uhh... Acid can groove quantize audio AND midi...

Cheers ModuLR, I didn't know that.

Let's hope that as of version 6, Acid will also be able to run without crashing, host VSTs properly, and begin to reverse the quite shocking/appalling fall from glory that it has suffered since Sony bought it.

Point: Taking a stab at Acid5, a program you claim to have intensively tested.. yet you didn't know the audio/midi quantize feature which is right in front of your face.

(3)

Let's hope that as of version 6, Acid will also be able to run without crashing, host VSTs properly, and begin to reverse the quite shocking/appalling fall from glory that it has suffered since Sony bought it.

some would argue the same for Live5... touche!

Point: Lightheartedly saying take a look in your own backyard before making blanket statements cos Live5 isn't roses, there are a lot of people with real problems...

(4)

Let's hope that as of version 6, Acid will also be able to run without crashing, host VSTs properly, and begin to reverse the quite shocking/appalling fall from glory that it has suffered since Sony bought it.

some would argue the same for Live5... touche!

Dunno really. I don't see lots of people deffecting from Live... it seems to be doing pretty well at present. Let's hope that lasts . But who still uses Acid? Not too many people it seems, although maybe the next version will restore its fortunes.

Personally I have used Live since version 2 and not had a single crash . The only music software that ever gave me serious stability problems was Tracktion 2, but that's a whole other story.

Point: underhandedly sneak in Tracktion comment because you think a Tracktion user has dissed you...


So I've got one question for you Headquest... are these not the order of events? Whether you agree with my "points"... you can at least answer that question. You see, your entire arguement henges on the idea that you mentioned tracktion, afterwhich us tracktion fellows came to destroy you. You have clearly mislead people, becuase it's not true. Go back and READ the damn thread man. In your "head" I made my comments after... in "reality" I made them before tracktion was even mentioned. Get your shit straight man...

Well now you guys have tired me out. I'm done with trying to argue with the four of you. I came here to post about FL/Live. It saddens me no end that you can't let people express their own thoughts, experiences and ideas without ganging up to shout them down. If this is what KVR has come to (just like the RMS forum before it) then I'm outta here. Adieu.

Here goes the pity party again... and don't really give a shit now, as you can't seem to tell the truth.