*sold*

[superddman]

Btw Kriminal: just listened to some of your tunes. You got skills man! Like it very much. You did them all in Orion?

Thanks. Yep, all made in Orion Platinum

cool. now, don't get me wrong, I did try Orion but maybe i've missed this. Is there a way to have automation envelopes inside of the Song Arrange window? Or you always have to edit knob envelopes outside of the Song Arrange window?

[superddman]

Maybe we could start a new thread about hosts. And yes, I'm serious...

Shouldn't be like "Cubase sucks" or so (admittedly I sometimes fail to resist as well), but sort of like a ressource for host developers, covering things such as:

- What's great to have?
- Which host does it fine?
- Which host lacks of it?
- How could you imagine a similar thing being implemented in host XYZ without completely destroying the paradigm?

And well, I'm not exactly talking about features. Of course, every host wants to have the most efficient audio engine, the best freezing, best time stretching, best internal FX, best stability, etc etc - but I'm mainly talking about user accessability, read: ergonomics and other useful things (pretty much like the pre/post routeable EQ in Orion, which is just great).

Of course, in an ideal world, such a thing would result in a "one size fits all" host, but we all know that there's different strokes for different people.
There's some almost "absolute" values though. For instance, the option to make each and every window a floating one IMO is an "absolute" value as it just adds things without compromising others. The same goes for the allready mentioned host-internal track EQ. It just makes sense to have it routeable while not getting in the way of anybody.

But then, probably not many host developers would read such a thing...

FWIW, there's allready some valuable info in this very thread. I do at least know a few requests of mine, should I ever be involved in testing a host.

This is a cool idea but I find that you can only go so far affecting the development of a host. At the end, it just comes to the likings of the developer hehe. If the developer thinks it's the way to go then it's going to be that way. I am talking here about the main building blocks of a host.

[BONES]

These days I only use a few synths regularly, and I know the capabilities of each pretty well. So I'll have some sound in my head and I'll know what I'm looking for and which is best suited for the job - 3xOsc, Vanguard, NEOkILLER for basses and leads, Kubik, Vectric, Crystal for pads (yes, I am a poofter), and effects.

That logic doesn't pan out for me. Every instrument I use has either been created by me or I have been using it for 5 years plus but I still don't believe for a second that I can predict with any certainty that if I swap this thing for that I will get a better result. Otherwise I would have used the right instrument in the first place. It always involves comparison and tweaking. And it certainly never, ever involves sticking with the same EQ and/or effects settings for a different instrument, even if it is doing a similar sound.

But then, probably not many host developers would read such a thing...

Maybe not but it would have plenty of value to people looking for a bit more insight than they can get from spending a few hours [or days or even weeks sometimes] with a demo version of something completely foreign. A thread where everyone tells us what their priorities are and how thier host fulfill their needs could be very useful. And if someone finds that they have the oppsoite opinion of a certain feature, and they can justify it, then that's a useful perspective too. It might even make people actually think a bit more about why they do things the way they do and work ou tmore efficient workflows.

cool. now, don't get me wrong, I did try Orion but maybe i've missed this. Is there a way to have automation envelopes inside of the Song Arrange window? Or you always have to edit knob envelopes outside of the Song Arrange window?

There are no automation envelopes in ORION and there is no way to have automation show up inside the Playlist. That said, it takes all of 2 seconds to arrange an Event Editor window to match the zoom of the Playlist if you need to do song-level automation. Pattern-level automation is integrated into the Piano Roll [and it has more and better tools]. Mostly I just record automation and leave it. Looking at the data afterwards is a distraction at best, there is rarely a need to make it look right if it already sounds right. That said, I really do very little automation of anything. I'm much more a modulation kind of guy.

[opia]

this is the cleverest Orion thread yet

[arke]

These days I only use a few synths regularly, and I know the capabilities of each pretty well. So I'll have some sound in my head and I'll know what I'm looking for and which is best suited for the job - 3xOsc, Vanguard, NEOkILLER for basses and leads, Kubik, Vectric, Crystal for pads (yes, I am a poofter), and effects.

That logic doesn't pan out for me. Every instrument I use has either been created by me or I have been using it for 5 years plus but I still don't believe for a second that I can predict with any certainty that if I swap this thing for that I will get a better result. Otherwise I would have used the right instrument in the first place. It always involves comparison and tweaking.

It always does involve tweaking but I'll pretty much be able to say NEOkILLER does a much better job at those low gritty leads than Vanguard, while vanguard will do the high super-detuned crap much better, so if I know approximately what I'm looking for...

And it certainly never, ever involves sticking with the same EQ and/or effects settings for a different instrument, even if it is doing a similar sound.

Thats why I turn them off ... takes one click in FL to turn off all inserts on a channel. I usually throw out the old EQ, but keep the other stuff around and readd them one by one, tweaking and rearranging as needed.

[Kriminal]

vanguard will do the high super-detuned crap much better, so if I know approximately what I'm looking for...

detuned, and crap are the key words there, thats all its good at, nearly as crap as superwave, tarnce central, ideal for kids, which is why you love it fat boy.

[Kriminal]

this is the cleverest Orion thread yet

and only one person has realised

[arke]

vanguard will do the high super-detuned crap much better, so if I know approximately what I'm looking for...

detuned, and crap are the key words there, thats all its good at, nearly as crap as superwave, tarnce central, ideal for kids, which is why you love it fat boy.

Superwave P8 is good for ... synth strings. And not even that good at that, a few layered 3xOscs are better and more CPU efficient even.

Don't hate me for liking Tarnce, especially the kind with nice melodic leads and progressions, because I'm only 18. I'm sure that once I grow up to be a respectable age like you, I'll only like very good and sophisticated music, like, for example, a 1 bar 303 pattern droning on for 5 minutes without variation.

[Kriminal]

vanguard will do the high super-detuned crap much better, so if I know approximately what I'm looking for...

detuned, and crap are the key words there, thats all its good at, nearly as crap as superwave, tarnce central, ideal for kids, which is why you love it fat boy.

Superwave P8 is good for ... synth strings. And not even that good at that, a few layered 3xOscs are better and more CPU efficient even.

Don't hate me for liking Tarnce, especially the kind with nice melodic leads and progressions, because I'm only 18. I'm sure that once I grow up to be a respectable age like you, I'll only like very good and sophisticated music, like, for example, a 1 bar 303 pattern droning on for 5 minutes without variation.

When you do grow up, maybe you will be able to make decent music that only involes one note, until then, stick to what you know best...teenage tarnce, and (MOD EDIT - and another one has to go dave ... ).

[brambos]

I'll only like very good and sophisticated music, like, for example, a 1 bar 303 pattern droning on for 5 minutes without variation.

Yeah.. these VST developers simply don't get it. We don't want no stinkin Vanguards! We need more 303 3mul4t0rz.

[diverdee]

When you do grow up, maybe you will be able to make decent music that only involes one note, until then, stick to what you know best...teenage tarnce, and (MOD EDIT - got to go from here too)

Take it that (MOD EDIT) comment is a dig at our Arke's german nationality?
That's one of the most uncalled for prickish things i've read here yet.
congratulations - you've just made a really poor taste racially motivated dig at an inoffensive, friendly 18 year old german kid.
Seriously - top marks, big man.
You really are on a run tonight aren't you?
Run out of crack or something?

[Kriminal]

BTW, brambos, nuff respect to you, i like you host, and will be following it very closely, you seem to have some good ideas going on, and i think it will be a very useful app once it has reached its potential

[Kriminal]

Run out of crack or something?

never tried it, do you recommend it?

[arke]

When you do grow up, maybe you will be able to make decent music that only involes one note, until then, stick to what you know best...teenage tarnce, and (MOD EDIT - and another one has to go dave ... ).

Of course, complex melodic music which is soooo out these days.

When you do grow up, maybe you will be able to make decent music that only involes one note, until then, stick to what you know best...teenage tarnce, and (MOD EDIT - got to go from here too)

Take it that (MOD EDIT) comment is a dig at our Arke's german nationality?
That's one of the most uncalled for prickish things i've read here yet.
congratulations - you've just made a really poor taste racially motivated dig at an inoffensive, friendly 18 year old german kid.
Seriously - top marks, big man.
You really are on a run tonight aren't you?
Run out of crack or something?

Thanks for the defense

(btw, this isn't the first time Krim has attacked me, and not the first crack at my nationality either. Oh well, I'm not gonna pull a headquest and leave and cry about it )

I'll only like very good and sophisticated music, like, for example, a 1 bar 303 pattern droning on for 5 minutes without variation.

Yeah.. these VST developers simply don't get it. We don't want no stinkin Vanguards! We need more 303 3mul4t0rz.

(MOD EDIT)

If Krim gets banned I'm gonna laugh my ass off

[Kriminal]

If Krim gets banned I'm gonna laugh my ass off

if your arse is as fat as your face, i can see we are gonna have to do another CD to save the ppl who suffer in the wake of that fat bastard wave!