FL Studio is amazing. Why is it so cheap?

[BONES]

Sytrus is amazing though.

It would f**king want to be at $30 more than the most expensive version of Fruity. Whereas we got Toxic 2 for free.

You could for $150 get Tracktion 2 boxed for linear work and a great mastering suite, buy eXT for $50 to drop into T2 for modular work, pick up a few VST's for free or on sale cheap here at KVR (someone is always selling Wusik, zeta+, Rhino, etc for 1/2 price) and have a totally monster setup for still less than the Producer edition.

I think you need to get your calculator out again. When I went to school 150+50+x [where x is the money spent on used VSTi] did not equal 149.

[rbet]

I think you need to get your calculator out again. When I went to school 150+50+x [where x is the money spent on used VSTi] did not equal 149.

Btw, how did you get Toxic2 for free?

[M'Snah]

Orion Platinum gives you Toxic 2 for free... plus a couple of other nice VST's... a nice workflow... and some really *nice* threads at kvr.

[DHR53]

Hmmm... I got Sytrus for $59. (group buy thingy) awhile ago! ...but of course I also have Orion Platinum (6.0 now), which (I think) I've had free upgrades for ages... If I just had the time to play with the PC...

[birrbits]

[IL] are so s-l-o-w to release new useful features that you end up behind in the technology curve. Wake up!!

the technology curve?!? is this part of the vst time-space continuum?
or perhaps you are refering to the rapid advances in the midi spec...
as for you insistence that we all "wake up".........

[sdv]

You could for $150 get Tracktion 2 boxed for linear work and a great mastering suite, buy eXT for $50 to drop into T2 for modular work, pick up a few VST's for free or on sale cheap here at KVR (someone is always selling Wusik, zeta+, Rhino, etc for 1/2 price) and have a totally monster setup for still less than the Producer edition.

I think you need to get your calculator out again. When I went to school 150+50+x [where x is the money spent on used VSTi] did not equal 149.

I meant XXL.

[sdv]

[IL] are so s-l-o-w to release new useful features that you end up behind in the technology curve. Wake up!!

the technology curve?!?

By the tech curve I mean giving the users useful generators/effects. Just now w/ v6 users get a multi-band compressor and a decent reverb. In v5 the big thing was timestretching (licensed from another company) and automation clips... shit, those were available in Acid 1.0 in 1999 and FL users had to wait until 2005.
That's the tech curve I'm speaking of.
Just now in v6 are they getting a decent sampler.

So here's the thing, the whole XXL package looks great to new buyers but to previous users you have to wait a next generation for features which users in other apps already have or else you, for example, buy a non-IL sampler because IL has been sitting on their hands for so long and then they go and release their own version of such later. Of course a user isn't required to purchase the new IL sampler but if they want an integrated Fruity studio it's tempting to spend the extra money and hence... you haven't really saved anything.

[sdv]

Wake up!!

as for you insistence that we all "wake up"

Don't get me wrong... IL has a VERY smart business model. The concept of "Free Lifetime Updates" is alluring, any purchaser is going to think hard about that. What is interesting is a statement from JMC himself in which he stated that ( according to my memory) only about %20 of purchasers ever upgraded to the newer version(s). According to this model they don't have to have the latest and greatest in each new version, all of which add cost to R&D and debugging... instead they defer those costs over a longer time period knowing they will get a clients money now for something, an unspecified updgrade feature, promised in the future.

IL is releasing a new version once a year, before Christams. Good marketing. From v5 to v6 not alot of new groundbreaking stuff was included, a few plugs (which should have already been in there) and some GUI optimization. They didn't have to spend alot of time/money with MAJOR upgrades.
Although some users will argue that those upgrades ARE in fact major, to which I would contend those features have been in "pro" packages for years and hence reaffirming all my points.

IL has been in the game now for a long time and have the same look and feel since it was a beat box app... they've gotten alot of milage from those early years of coding, which is just smart programming.

Now there's nothing wrong with any of this... it's just a response to the original topic of this thread. But some people need to wake up as to how the business of product development works.

[tony tony chopper]

>>Just now w/ v6 users get a multi-band compressor and a decent reverb. In v5 the big thing was timestretching (licensed from another company) and automation clips... shit, those were available in Acid 1.0 in 1999 and FL users had to wait until 2005.

-that 'decent' reverb is 99% the same as the one already had for 5 years. Just behind a better-looking UI, which apparently.. does the trick.

-if you can't tell the diff between Acid's & FL's timestretching, you don't need much advanced features yourself

[arke]

Yeah, I didn't notice any difference between the two new Reeverbs ... but I still use the new one because the GUI is nicer

Regarding the timestretch ... the Acid Timestretch is good, so is the FL Timestretch. If I had to choose, I'd choose the FL Timestretch because theres several for different purposes, while Acid just has one very good one for everything...

[BONES]

By the tech curve I mean giving the users useful generators/effects. Just now w/ v6 users get a multi-band compressor and a decent reverb. In v5 the big thing was timestretching (licensed from another company) and automation clips... shit, those were available in Acid 1.0 in 1999 and FL users had to wait until 2005.

For whom are these "pro" features? Certainly not for me. For me they are dance music features. And comparing to Acid is kind of shooting yourself in the foot, don't you think? ORION doesn't have any timestretching because Rich doesn't feel that any of the available solutions are of a professional standard, so we continue to do it non-realtime for maximum quality.

[sdv]

>>Just now w/ v6 users get a multi-band compressor and a decent reverb. In v5 the big thing was timestretching (licensed from another company) and automation clips... shit, those were available in Acid 1.0 in 1999 and FL users had to wait until 2005.

-that 'decent' reverb is 99% the same as the one already had for 5 years. Just behind a better-looking UI, which apparently.. does the trick.

-if you can't tell the diff between Acid's & FL's timestretching, you don't need much advanced features yourself

Well, I meant 'decent looking'... in that a user can see the room size and such. Still sounds the same to me and that's disappointing. That was supposed to be a "new" reverb and it was just re-hashed code (again confirming my point about hte IL biz model). I consider the reveb on Computer Muzys to have better options for having useful clangorous reverbs. If I meant decent sounding I would have *really* made a point about FLS missing convolution reverb.

Of course FL and Acid's timestretching are different (in that Acid only works with Acid loops)... but at least that was an option in 1999... it was groundbgreaking shit!!

[sdv]

By the tech curve I mean giving the users useful generators/effects. Just now w/ v6 users get a multi-band compressor and a decent reverb. In v5 the big thing was timestretching (licensed from another company) and automation clips... shit, those were available in Acid 1.0 in 1999 and FL users had to wait until 2005.

For whom are these "pro" features? Certainly not for me. For me they are dance music features. And comparing to Acid is kind of shooting yourself in the foot, don't you think?

Well, Acid in 1999. Things have come a long way and the Elastique in FLS v5 IS better in overall terms than Acid's but that's the difference 6 years can make.

I say "pro" features in that they are features that come in higher priced packages. That doesn't mean the pro's use FLS or that the FLS implementation of those features are of pro quality.

But this isn't really a thread about judging the quality of FLS... just explaining how their business model looks.

[ninjadroid]

FL absolutely is great value for money. SDV argues that a cheap studio and a hodge-podge of free plugins is less expensive than the XXL edition of FL. What he fails to mention is that a cheap version of FL, combined with said hodge-podge, produces a very competitively cheap result. With lifetime upgrades, to boot.

But if XXL is your thing, let's peg an apple to an apple: say, Reason.

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/r ... seupreason

There isn't anything in there that doesn't have an equivalent in FL. Don't believe me?

Combinator = Layers
Mastering Suite = Multiband Compressor + EQ
NN-XT = DirectWave
Malstrom = Anything + Granulizer
Subtractor = 3xOSC (most underrated synth ever)
Redrum = FPC
Dr. Rex = Beat Slicer
NN19 = Sampler
Matrix = Piano Roll
??? = Sytrus
etc.

Now, obviously FL and Reason provide a very different production experience, so it's not entirely clear which one is better. In terms of musical capacity, I fail to find one inferior to the other on anything approaching objective merits. And FL XXL is $50 less* with lifetime free updates. Good value.

And if $350 is more than you want to spend, you can drop that price by $200 and use the very respectable producer edition and a hodge-podge of free instruments. More good value.

Plus, you get to watch Gol and JMC duke it out on LoopTalk. And that, friends, is the very meaning of priceless.

* less! $50 less, not $50 total. Mea culpa.

[jzero]

Good points Ninjaroid, though this one resonates with me the most...

3xOSC (most underrated synth ever)

3xOsc (Layered or not) +
stereo detune and phase shift +
using the MIDI delay on the Func tab as an ensemble effect +
Native FL FX =
luscious synth goodness with the least CPU consumption around.


I just wish they'd update it and the sampler channels with two LFO shapes:
sawtooth (a bizzare omission)
sample-and-hold random

If you throw the envelope controller in the mix, there are lots more modulation possibilities.