Quite a big disadvantage in Cubase SX3 !!!!!

[Kingston]

Kingston, for what it's worth (oh, and yes, you can start laughing now, I'm as well): Guess who's running the german Cubase mailing list? No shit, it's yours truly!
A pretty small list but there's at least 3-4 of their programmers on board.

They are pretty aware of all these points and we even started collecting a list about possible improvements that I'm going to compile more or less soon (the subscribed Steinbergers even asked for that).

I don't like cubase.net too much, btw. It's not exactly freedom of spech there.

But anyways, let's see what they have up their sleeves for Frankfurt. Probably even a v4? I'm just a bit afraid that it woild again add some new features (liquid audio for instance) without anything else being streamlined. From v2 to v3 seemed to a rather mediocre step for most people. I don't think warp audio is used all that much (guess that's what people are using Live for)... for my personal needs it's been just two things: Relative snap (finally!) and the slightly improved channel strip (if it'd only work properly with the extended settings window).

yeah that IS funny. But also comforting to know they've got someone as persistant as you in charge.

Yeah cubase.net is a bit annoying in many aspects (even more so than KVR!).


I also fear they'll just bolt on new features to make things look good on paper, like they did in SX3. (feature wise it really is just SX2.5 when you think about it). It would be far more important IMO to have major streamlining done (or at least allow heavy duty UI customisation if nothing else). That would make the app look somewhat new and they could boast a "major update", instead of just new features which will happen most likely.

[stag]

The velocity tool don't forget this one too

Leave the freaking mixer as it is, one man ellegance is another's kitch.
If an audio channel is created automatically each time a VSTi is called, once it's taken out the channel goes too, so people can save chanel strip presets first and recall its state later, as easy as routing anything to a non deleted audio track.

I don't enjoy much f**king shameless logic users that feel entitled to hi-jack legitimate SX threads without answering at least the initial querry and start to evangelize others like logic is or was or will be an example of anything ... go use whatever makes you happy an leave us alone

[IIRs]

What's so bad about proper dual monitor support?

What's so bad about a configurable mixer (optional of course)?

What's so bad about re-configurable (read: drag and drop) effect chains?

What would be so bad if the entire channel settings wouldn't be lost in case you change a VSTi?

What's so bad about stereo FX available on a mono track?

What about a properly working solo function?

Why not have "linkable" plugin windows (optional again), so opening a plugin UI would just close the previously loaded one, so one wouldn't be drowned in windows after 1 minute of work?

What about a channel strip that wouldn't make me laugh if it wasn't that pathetic (it simply doesn't work for VSTis)?

What about finally bringing back proper reclocking, something VST did extraordinarily well?

What about proper performance under low latencies (the difference between, say, 128 samples and 1024 is incredible and not justified as other hosts don't suffer from that)?

What about experiencing no crackles until the system is indeed maxed out (pretty much a wellknown thing, again especially valid when using low latencies)?

Sounds like you need to try Tracktion

[spaceman]

now this thread will take off good

[Foxglove]

I would love to be able to reconfigure VST FX by drag and drop. Always found this to be one of the greatest powers of Xlutop's Chainer.

[IIRs]

I would love to be able to reconfigure VST FX by drag and drop. Always found this to be one of the greatest powers of Xlutop's Chainer.

And its just one of the many reasons I refuse to use anything other than Tracktion these days.

[Kingston]

I don't enjoy much f**king shameless logic users that feel entitled to hi-jack legitimate SX threads without answering at least the initial querry

With me and sascha (at least) it's not about logic vs. cubase at all. We both know (and sascha even more) both of these apps pretty much inside out. We use them extensively, and I think that justifies comparisons like in this thread. It's not about this versus that, but rather constructive criticism, or pointing out sheers flaws.

It unfortunately turns into a rant or whine all too often from the sheer frustration of knowing steinberg will do nothing about these nags.

[Sascha Franck]

The velocity tool don't forget this one too

I explicitely stated that it wasn't my intention to make Cubase the new Logic.
Even if a lot of people would probably benefit a lot from a velocity tool.

Leave the freaking mixer as it is, one man ellegance is another's kitch.

stag, too bad I have to rub it in: But you still haven't learned to read properly at all. I said "optionally" and this would again be something a LOT of Cubase users would benefit from.
Just as the rest of my suggestions. None of them has got anything to do with (the fact of) me being a Logic fanboy. If you read through the (short) list, you will know that you'd benefit from them as well - or do you really prefer inefficient audio engines over efficient ones? Just to name a single example...

go use whatever makes you happy an leave us alone

I'm afraid I won't do so. And I'm using Cubase as well, so that's just legitimate, regardless whether I'm kinda forced to use it (which unfortunately is the case) or not.

And IIRs, yes, Tracktion might be great, but as I'm pretty much a MIDI nerd, I'm afraid I won't be all that happy with it.

[jens]

And IIRs, yes, Tracktion might be great, but as I'm pretty much a MIDI nerd, I'm afraid I won't be all that happy with it.

believe me, Sascha: it would drive you mad within a few days if you'd try to seriously use it.

[IIRs]

And IIRs, yes, Tracktion might be great, but as I'm pretty much a MIDI nerd, I'm afraid I won't be all that happy with it.

I consider myself something of a MIDI nerd.. I used to earn a living programming MIDI using Cubase VST.. but I find Tracktion's piano-roll offers all the essential features I need, and its simplicity is like a breath of fresh air that helps me to focus on the music.. and anyway there are several aspects of Tracktion's MIDI implementation that I actually prefer to the old Cubase method, such as the groove quantise and the ability to super-impose MIDI clips on top of audio clips so you can position notes with reference to a waveform display.

<edit> I'm not saying Tracktion's MIDI is perfect, but I am confident it will develop further.. and meanwhile I find it a very small price to pay for Tracktion's elegant and intuitive solution to all the other problems you listed earlier in the thread.

[OMU]

I'd like to have Cubase's freeze and audio editing in Logic. And proper PDC. And the full screen option for quicktime movies! Now that would be great.
And, Sascha, what's wrong about the solo function in Cubase?
Also the midi routing is better in Cubase (try to select a midi in port and a different midi out port on a channel in Logic).

[egbert]

And, Sascha, what's wrong about the solo function in Cubase?

It is seriously screwed. Here is a prime example: say you want to hear the (wet) contribution of a reverb on an FX bus. In Logic, you hit the solo button on that FX bus and if you have the reverb set to 100% wet you will only hear the wet sound. You can compare reverbs and fine tune patches to suit your needs.

In Cubase SX 3 what you hear in the same situation is the full dry mix of everything that is sending to that FX bus + the reverb. What f@$%ing use is that?. I can hear that without soloing anything!

[OMU]

Understood.

[spaceman]

And, Sascha, what's wrong about the solo function in Cubase?

It is seriously screwed. Here is a prime example: say you want to hear the (wet) contribution of a reverb on an FX bus. In Logic, you hit the solo button on that FX bus and if you have the reverb set to 100% wet you will only hear the wet sound. You can compare reverbs and fine tune patches to suit your needs.

In Cubase SX 3 what you hear in the same situation is the full dry mix of everything that is sending to that FX bus + the reverb. What f@$%ing use is that?. I can hear that without soloing anything!

I think this shows the limitations of how they have coded the signal path. I think it might show that the coders did not get the correct logic down before coding and it seems they can't just fix these kind of problems without recoding the whole thing again.

just an idea of course

[Sascha Franck]

And not only that, egbert...
Things are getting *way* worse in case you use screensets (err, "workspaces" that is), with some of them having a key editor opened.
I'm not sure top of my head if this is the proper way to reproduce things (can't be bothered to test right now), but when you switch to a workspace with an editor, press "s", what's happening in the editor will be solo-ed. Now, when you switch back to your project workspace and select another track than the one that you've been editing before, MIDI notes will still be sent to the edited "module", your track selection effectively being ignored.
I also remember some other things, some solo functions neglecting others and the likes (pretty much along the lines of what egbert said).

The problem being that "s" (or whatever command you have assigned) is working on multiple levels. It's working for the project window, also working for the mixer (but working differently) and it's also working for the editor (obviously again being implemented differently).
IMO, those should all use different solo functionalities, triggerable via modifiers or whatever.
It's totally unpredictable as is, and the solo function even changes when you have a mixer "allways on top" or as a plain window.
Personally, I never saw the need for a keycommand triggered solo function in the mixer. I mean, when fooling around there you are using your mouse anyways. To me, the keyboard triggered solo function is only relevant in the project window as I may have my hands on the MIDI keys, not wanting to reach for the mouse but just pressing a key quickly.

Really, all that non-working linky-linky stuff between project and mixer is driving me mad.
Wouldn't you expect that the actual audio output channel would be shown once you select a track using a VSTi? But no, it's the MIDI channel that will be selected, rather pointless when working with VSTis that offer most (if not all) of their useable settings on the respective audio channels.
I do of course know that there's a workaround by selecting the channel in the "vstplugins" folder track, but I usually really don't want to bother with that.
I do as well know where all this is coming from: It's a left over of the good old hardware days when you had to connect a MIDI track to a MIDI output and when there was nothing like VSTis.
Yet, in these days things are quite different, and now that Steinberg decided to invent VSTis, they should better support them properly as well!

Yes, I know, you don't want to hear it anymore, but Logic excels so much in that area. Regardless whether I'm using an audiotrack or a VSTi one, selecting it will automatically take me to the relevant channel in the mixer.

Now, Steinberg has tried to partially adress the problem, unfortunately they failed miserably (nothing that unusual, huh?): Since SX 3 there's a new "E" button for VSTi tracks, automatically opening the "extended audio channel settings" (or whatever it's called). Fine.
Now, that window is supposed to "auto-follow" your track selection. Again, mighty fine! Would be the perfect channel strip.
However, as said, they managed to entirely f**k things up. Select a VSTi track, open the audio channel window, then select another VSTi track and *blam*, you're confronted with the MIDI channel window, something I explicitely wanted to avoid by clicking the new "E" button.
Really, these things are completely beyond me. How difficult can it be to get that right? And what an IMMENSELY nice thing would this be?
Ok, I assume they just can't get it right because the "automatically open MIDI window" portion is buried so deeply in their code that it simply can't be adressed. But in that case, well... they can just f*** their all so new and shiny SX code. Otherwise they should freaking get their act together and adress all these myriads of issues.

As said, this hasn't got anything to do with me being a Logic user. It's got to do with the program doing what it's supposed to (whatever that might mean to everybody, but for me it also includes efficient handling of various things you do on a daily base).