Maximizing Volume Question

[bduffy]

Two things: first, to help with punchy bass in electronic music, awesome tutorial: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun01/a ... mixing.asp

yeh thanks for that - this is an area I've been concentrating on lately, getting the bottom end working. cheers

No problem, thrilled to help out. Every once in awhile I go back and read it too; a truly life-altering tutorial, that one.

[CANE CREEK]

Buy this book read it carefully page by page and you'll never have to post a question like this on a forum ever again , you'll be a lethal AUDIO NINJA

[LoopisLucas]

Two things: first, to help with punchy bass in electronic music, awesome tutorial: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun01/a ... mixing.asp

Second, for mastering, check out Harbal and AAMS. These programs can help you achieve tighter sonic mixes and get more gain out of your masters. Both sites, especially the Harbal site, feature tutorials and advice on mastering. The Harbal site has a step=by-step multiband compression tutorial, using the Waves LinMB, and the AAMS site has a step-by-step also, and the program features suggestions specifically for the LinMB.

Thank you very much. I'll spend some time with this article. This is a new language to me.

As far as the "volume war" goes, I think there is something exciting about the difference in today's mixes compared to the past. I was in a bar the other night which had this Rolling Stones' theme. After hearing the classics from that era, Marilyn Manson's 'Rock is Dead' came on. The entire bar was energized...the song just rocked. I'm not even really a Marilyn Manson fan. Sorry for the extra info, but it was a cool feeling

P.S. If you don't know the song 'Rock is Dead', check it out!

[bduffy]

No problem, LoopisLucas. That's a very inspiring article, I keep it handy for when I get stuck.

Yeah, the volume war...it's hard to argue that you should brickwall peaks and have quiet bits as loud as loud bits...but it sure does suit a lot of the modern stuff. I mean, if it's being recorded with heavy limiting in mind, it seems that engineers know what to do. I'm amazed at the clarity and seperation that you still get in records, even with the crazy limtiting, and contrary to theory, I listen to them over and over again.

But then again, there's a song that I tried ripping a million times and I could not get it to rip without distorting, it was mastered so loud. It's an emo-type tune, so the mastering suits it, but I didn't notice how crushed it was until I tried ripping it. So you wonder how good it would sound w/o it. Also, I just picked up a newly remastered "Sparkle in the Rain", by Simple Mids, and it sounds awful, I should have just picked up the origiinal transfer. Brickwalling destroyed it.

And the funny thing: when I'm listening to records while doing housework, say, I don't even notice much difference when it switches from a record mastered last year to a recored mastered in 1980. So I'm sure we could abandon the brickwall paradigm and not even notice. All in all, I'd favour going back to 1970-80's levels.

[sparrow]

Has anyone checked the levels The White Stripes have?
I'm asking because whoever produced them totally skiped the loudness war and went their own way, which you might like or not, I mean all that low fi and noise and stuff, but my point is, they did make it to the top charts and if you check their peaks, they never pass -3 db.
And for some reason, when A/B comparing with other, louder artists, the louder ones always end up sounding somehow clumsy and redundant.
Of course you also notice how abundantly compressed their tracks are, but not in a brickwall way, their soundwaves look somehow like those from the sixties, very meaty and dynamic.
And White Stripes DO sound loud.
I think it all goes down to very skillful mixing and precautious production criteria as well as two still basic things (I'm sorry about this): TAPE and lotsa HARDWARE gear.

[CANE CREEK]

Has anyone checked the levels The White Stripes have?
I'm asking because whoever produced them totally skiped the loudness war and went their own way, which you might like or not, I mean all that low fi and noise and stuff, but my point is, they did make it to the top charts and if you check their peaks, they never pass -3 db.
And for some reason, when A/B comparing with other, louder artists, the louder ones always end up sounding somehow clumsy and redundant.
Of course you also notice how abundantly compressed their tracks are, but not in a brickwall way, their soundwaves look somehow like those from the sixties, very meaty and dynamic.
And White Stripes DO sound loud.
I think it all goes down to very skillful mixing and precautious production criteria as well as two still basic things (I'm sorry about this): TAPE and lotsa HARDWARE gear.

Yes thats because the white stripe know everybody has a volume control on their music system so if folk want their music loud they just have to turn the knob , theres no need for the engineer to compress the living daylights out of it.

[EJo]

(removed)

[Manc Chris]

Marilyn Manson's 'Rock is Dead' came on. The entire bar was energized...the song just rocked. I'm not even really a Marilyn Manson fan. Sorry for the extra info, but it was a cool feeling

Yes, good track, good production. But after listening to it again, in the context of this discussion, then IMHO it has crap - albeit zeigeist - mastering. The whole thing is crushed hard against the ceiling. Ewwww.

[Kiwburger]

Some of the top mastering houses are literally clipping their converters on purpose. Not ordinary converters, but certain high end models (Prism, Lavry etc) that are designed to be over-driven. They clip in a better way than cheap converters. So basically they are analog limiters. A digital converter is primarily an analog device. Some of them don't even look at meters - they use their ears and tolerate as much distortion vs volume as the client wants. Of course they have taken care of spectral balance first. Most mastering engineers are pushing the limits of volume reluctantly - they get pressured from whoever is paying for their services.

[SJ_Digriz]

Not ordinary converters, but certain high end models (Prism, Lavry etc) that are designed to be over-driven. They clip in a better way than cheap converters. So basically they are analog limiters. A digital converter is primarily an analog device.

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