Sample Based Questions

[Atomsplitter]

Hi, i have a few sample based questions -

1 - Is it ok to cut up a drum loop in to single hits for a few different beats and then mix them together into a new beat add some eq ect and then sell or give the sample away for free?

2 - Is it ok to use other artists patterns for basslines ect and then just use your own bass or synth lead ect?

3 - With magazines and sample CD's that say the samples are royalty free does this mean they can be used for anything such as games, website sounds or effects/product demos or does the term royalty free just apply to making tracks/songs and selling them?

Thanks

[M'Snah]

1) no.
2) no, but it's sometimes hard to prove. But if you take the beginning of e.g. Yesterday, everyone will know right away that you stole it.
3) yes, you can use them, but you cannot sell them!

[soniccouture]

No.2 -it IS ok to copy basslines, the law does not recognise basslines as copyright. if you copy a bass pattern, but record it yourself , not sample it , then its fine.

[MattmaN]

It's ok to chop breaks,just not leagle.
But I never hear about drums being cleard by DJ shadow,or dj premier,so I doubt if it's a real concern unless it's a highly recognizable break.
I've been sampling drum breaks since 1991,and on almost every track I use chopped up kicks,snares,and hats.
I grew up with that sound,and the influence it had on me leaves me unwilling to part with those old dusty breaks just because of a silly copywrite law that needs revising anyway.

[whyterabbyt]

No.2 -it IS ok to copy basslines, the law does not recognise basslines as copyright. if you copy a bass pattern, but record it yourself , not sample it , then its fine.

Please specify exactly where it is in copyright law that it states that basslines are exempt.

[duncanparsons]

It's to do with arrangement...

In a song (ie a tune with words) only the sung melody is copyright. The backing isn't. If the harmonies contain strong melodic content, arguably they may be part of the tune, but that depends on the composer and publisher as to whether they do actually constitute part of the song.

With an instrumental piece, it's harder to define. Essentially it's the salient melody that is copyright. eg with Take 5, the horn line is the tune, the structure of the piano chords isn't: even tho the piano is the bit that everyone remembers, it ain't the melody {it's part of the arrangement} and is up for grabs.

With more complicated works, like Steve Reich stuff, Terry Riley, John Cage, etc, where the arrangement stops and melody starts are often difficult to tell (if indeed there is a 'melody' as many might argue). In such cases walk with discernment, and contact the publisher. Something like Tubular Bells, you would be walking a tightrope. The opening piano is both melody (at the start) and arrangement later on..

But otw, basslines are up for grabs. This is how the UK works anyway. PRS etc. has existed using this guideline for 80-odd years, and I can't see them giving up now.

With regards using recorded material, the notes may not always be part of copyright, but the actual electrons on magnetic tape (or wax cylinder) are. MCPS/ASCAP/your countries equiv. would like to hear from you if you're including such articles in your music

DSP

[ScarKord]

But otw, basslines are up for grabs. This is how the UK works anyway. PRS etc. has existed using this guideline for 80-odd years, and I can't see them giving up now.

I'm pretty sure Norman Cook re-recorded the bassline from the Clash's Guns of Brixton rather than sampled it for Dub be good to me but still ended up paying them 50% royalties?

[Atomsplitter]

Thanks for the replys everyone, MattmaN yeah i make jungle music sometimes but i have not ever released any tracks on kvr ect because i have read before that its not ok to use breaks like the amen break but i always get confused with stuff like this as jungle music is basically a genre that always use breaks such as the amen and think breaks, i know alot of dnb and jungle artists are posting free tracks to listen to all the time though, is it ok to do this? im guessing that the problems are only when your trying to sell the music but thats probably something the record label would sort out?

[Sascha Franck]

Copyrights are a truly weird issue at times, especially when you consider that classical music is treated quite different than pop music.

Basically, there's just two things covered by copyright: Melodies and lyrics.
This could (and actually does) lead to a lot of unfair situations.

For instance, theoretically someone could redo an entire arrangement of yours in the most detailed manner possible, change the melody (and lyrics, if there are any) and use it as his/her own without any legal consequences.

Another example: you arrange some really nice strings for a tune, including melodies, counterpoint and whatever. Now someone (the composer) will just sing (or play) his/her melody over your work, could be the cheesiest thing ever - yet, his/her melody will be the thing copyrighted.

The same goes for any arrangement work you may do, say, during some studio session.
You could come up with an entire reharmonisation (and we all know how different a melody sounds against different harmonies), but it wouldn't entitle your work to any sort of copyright.

Now, there's some exceptions. Certain things *could* be treated as a part of the composition (fwiw: when it comes to classical music, almost everything is part of the composition), but things will be dealt with in a rather random fashion. There's some sort of commitee which will decide whether your guitar riff is part of the composition (think "Satisfaction" or so), but one thing remains: It's not up to *you* to decide. The only thing of *you* that will be protected "naturally" is the (main) melody.

That's why a lot of people share compositional rights before any such questionable events may happen, even if in fact it was just one of them actually writing the melody.
Obviously, this will only work in a friendly environment, aforementioned studio job most likely not falling into that category...

[soniccouture]

But otw, basslines are up for grabs. This is how the UK works anyway. PRS etc. has existed using this guideline for 80-odd years, and I can't see them giving up now.

I'm pretty sure Norman Cook re-recorded the bassline from the Clash's Guns of Brixton rather than sampled it for Dub be good to me but still ended up paying them 50% royalties?

i thought he sampled it, but i'm not sure.

ultimately these things come down to an individual decisionfrom one judge in court, so there are variations.

[tee boy]

Question 3 is a grey area. Some devs do not allow the use of their sounds in isolation, say as a GUI button on a site or game. Spectrasonics for example dont allow you to do this.

TB

[Sascha Franck]

Question 3 is a grey area. Some devs do not allow the use of their sounds in isolation, say as a GUI button on a site or game. Spectrasonics for example dont allow you to do this.

I thinks that's a truly grey area.
Let's just assume I'd write a track and would like to have two (or more) bars of a drum break.
Would my compositional goals be demolished by that policy?

[spectrum]

Question 3 is a grey area. Some devs do not allow the use of their sounds in isolation, say as a GUI button on a site or game. Spectrasonics for example dont allow you to do this.

I thinks that's a truly grey area.
Let's just assume I'd write a track and would like to have two (or more) bars of a drum break.
Would my compositional goals be demolished by that policy?

Not at all.

To clarify Spectrasonics standard license policy:

BOTTOM LINE - Single User Musical use=OK

All musical use in a mixed delivery format (mono/stereo/5.1/etc) is perfectly fine. We don't get freaked out about soloed element in breakdowns, intros, etc....happens all the time.

What does need a different license/special clearance is NON-musical, commercial use....like using our sounds for sound effects in games and other non-musical industrial applications like that.

Our standard license covers any type of music use that's delivered in a mixed format....even music libraries and trailers are OK with Spectrasonics, which are usually restricted by many other sample developers.

spectrum

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, so I'm gonna do a composition lining up all the Stylus loops one after each other.



(if I only had Stylus yet...)

[spectrum]

Yeah....already published that one.