KVR Audio

2windy · Post by **2windy** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:48 am

Glassback, when you are wanting to see if other synths would sound better than the current one can you not just open a new synth and link MIDI form the first. It's in the options where the arp is. Mute the mixer channel on the original and away you go.

opia · Post by **opia** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:04 pm

ooooh 2windy you devil

there you go giving away all those big secrets

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:07 pm

Glassback wrote:There are any number of presets, generally, which could be the sound I'm looking for. Or I can breed the genetics or tweak the controls until I'm blue in the face. If I can't find the sound with that synth, I'll try another and another and another until I find the right sound.

So even after all that painstaking work, you'd just be happy to accept that whatever you end up with is better than what you had and move on? No matter the situation I would always want to be able to compare with the initial sound to be certain I'm happy. Its called "thoroughness".

Glassback wrote:However, this is not the first time we've clashed because I've expressed a preference in the way Orion does things or expressed a feature request.
You seem to class yourself as Orions unofficial representative (
BONES wrote:Clearly you're unable to give any reason why Rich should take time away from useful features to put in something that he sees no value in so how could expect him to change his mind. Maybe if I told him that you would really like it, that would be enough?
), but your attitude would do Rich no favours if you were.

I've already told him, backing up Kriminal, that I think its really important to put it in because of the perception these discussions give about the product. All I was doing was passing his response onto you.
All your examples of why it might be handy simply point to the fact that you have not adjusted your workflow to compensate. When I bring up the time window, the first thing I do is move it to empty space on my interface [mostly so that it doesn't obscure the mixer]. Once I bring it up it remains visible until I close it. I also think that most of your examples are krap. Even if I find a "glitch" in a song in CE2k, I know my own work well enough that I will find the problem based on the arrangement, not the stopwatch. Mind you. I'm thorough enough that those problems don't arise.

Again my eyes are opened. "...a huge step forward in terms of Rich listening to his customers more than doing his own thing."
IMO, Rich should listen to his customers more. How many developers put a product out, charge money for it and then tell their customers that "I don't want it there, I don't care what you want."
bones, you don't pay for Orion, I do. I've paid good money for it and will (probably) continue to do so when the paid upgrades come out. So, really, as a paying customer, I think my (and other customers) wants and feature-requests outweigh those of a freeloader, know what I mean?

No, I don't. For starters I don't pay because Rich won't let me. I would happily pay for everythign but Rich feels that the work I have done making skins and tutorials deserves compensation. Plus you assume that I ask for features. I don't, except to pass on things that I hear in places like this. As far as I am concerned there is nothing that needs to be added or improved or changed at all. If Rich stopped development tomorrow I would happily continue using ORION in its current state forever.

dover666 · Post by **dover666** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:20 pm

BONES wrote: As far as I am concerned there is nothing that needs to be added or improved or changed at all. If Rich stopped development tomorrow I would happily continue using ORION in its current state forever.

BAM!

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:24 pm

BONES wrote:All your examples of why it might be handy simply point to the fact that you have not adjusted your workflow to compensate.

i dont use orion and its unlikely i will ... but i LOVE this statement too much not to quote it ... its just SO right and SO wrong all at the same time ...

... nice one warren ...

slainte

rob

2windy · Post by **2windy** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:17 pm

opia wrote:ooooh 2windy you devil

there you go giving away all those big secrets

You mean the ones that are only known to those who actually read the manual

Took me ages to find that out!

TeeLangSun · Post by **TeeLangSun** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:43 pm

BONES wrote: All your examples of why it might be handy simply point to the fact that you have not adjusted your workflow to compensate. When I bring up the time window, the first thing I do is move it to empty space on my interface [mostly so that it doesn't obscure the mixer]. Once I bring it up it remains visible until I close it.

I wonder what is this stiff resistance to such a simple and standard idea. Being able to see the time readout all the time. Is it going to require thousands of manhours and a team of beta testers? Rich has in the past implemented more than a few of my personal requests so I could never think of him as someone who ignores the requests of users, but this particular one seems like such a given.

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:46 pm

Time waits for no man, except Chuck Norris.... & BONES.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:21 am

pHz wrote:i dont use orion and its unlikely i will ... but i LOVE this statement too much not to quote it ... its just SO right and SO wrong all at the same time ...

I hear you but, on both sides, this particular issue stinks of tilting at windmills. Its so easy to make allowance for it in your workflow and it seems like it wouldn't be much effort to put it in the toolbar but both sides are so passionate about their stand on it.
There are plenty of things that I would never be willing to compromise on or adjust to but then there are a million more things that require such a small adjustment as to be not worth even mentioning. Would I personally like a time readout on the main toolbar? Yes. Have I ever given it more than the merest passing thought [outside these discussions]? No. Can I think of a hundred other things that might make ORION better than having a time readout on the main toolbar? Easily.

TeeLangSun wrote:I wonder what is this stiff resistance to such a simple and standard idea. Being able to see the time readout all the time. Is it going to require thousands of manhours and a team of beta testers? Rich has in the past implemented more than a few of my personal requests so I could never think of him as someone who ignores the requests of users, but this particular one seems like such a given.

His attitude is just as you say. In fact his response was along the lines of "but it will take time away from getting useful things done". I certainly don't see the burning need for it and the fact that every other app has it is not reason in itself to do something but it does seem like a fairly minor thing for him to be so resistant to. But the new beta seems to be further away now than it was a week ago so maybe it will find its way in if Krim and I made our point strongly enough.

2windy · Post by **2windy** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:30 am

What about...dare I say...a compramise!!!!

In preferences, you could have an option of 'Show time in transport bar'?

[Ducks bullets]

dover666 · Post by **dover666** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:37 am

if the meter is a window you can open and leave somewhere, what's the problem... i think what sold me though is the ability to "breed" presets.... that gave me chills... peace.

Glassback · Post by **Glassback** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:08 am

2windy wrote:In preferences, you could have an option of 'Show time in transport bar'?

Glassback wrote:...having a time display that at least has the option of always being on top ...///... show/hide button

bones, I don't know why I wasted my time trying to be civil with you - you asked me why I would want certain features, I told you, you got mealy-mouthed again.

The time display is NOT always on top.
The mixer itself is large enough to fill most of the screen when there are several channels active. If it WAS always on top, do you think I'd even have mentioned it?
You give the impression that you think I've got a downer on Orion just because I have a couple of MINOR feature desires that would make MY workflow easier. A working method that is simply different to yours.
I suppose I could use the stealth skin to make room to see the time display, but I don't because it's crap. I prefer the standard mixer GUI. The others are too fiddly. On a monitor using an 1152 x 864 resolution the mixer fills the screen as does the playlist when it starts to get full and I expand it to see all the channels and a good portion of the structure.

I couldn't care less what you think to the way I do things and I don't care about the way you do them either. It's irrelevant.
It's really simple - I'd like to see one or two simple changes to make working in Orion that bit easier. A visible time display and better integrated effects automation windows are just 2 of them.
You constantly biting peoples heads off because they do things differently to you is, frankly, juvenile.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:09 am

Yeah, Genetics is very cool.

2windy wrote:What about...dare I say...a compramise!!!!
In preferences, you could have an option of 'Show time in transport bar'?

You're missing the essential element here - Rich doesn't want to do the work. All you're suggesting is even more work for him.

DHR53 · Post by **DHR53** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:18 am

Yea, I used to make feature requests over at the Orion forum... But I finally realized something... nobody else wanted the same things I did! What the hell is the matter with you people, anyway?

Glassback · Post by **Glassback** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:25 am

BONES wrote:Rich doesn't want to do the work.

But he wants the wages from us though.

KVR Audio

Orion??? POS/NEG opinions please... no trolls.

Your opinion matters to me!!