Orion??? POS/NEG opinions please... no trolls.

[mooter]

I have yet to pay for an update since early 5.something

I have 5 updates backed up.

I suppose a discouraging thing about Orion is having a small user base that's starts bickering in no time in pretty much every KvR post.
Kinda fun to watch tho

[BONES]

The time display is NOT always on top.

I am perfectly well aware of that which is why I move it so that there is nothing underneath it.

The mixer itself is large enough to fill most of the screen when there are several channels active.

The default mixer.

You give the impression that you think I've got a downer on Orion just because I have a couple of MINOR feature desires that would make MY workflow easier.

Not at all, i just think that its such a minor thing that I hav eno idea why anyone would care as passionately abou tit as you seem to.

A working method that is simply different to yours.

And one which clearly causes you infinitely more frustration than mine does me.

I suppose I could use the stealth skin to make room to see the time display, but I don't because it's crap.

So use Azura or NOVA-II or Light, all of which have narrower mixer strips.

I couldn't care less what you think to the way I do things and I don't care about the way you do them either. It's irrelevant.
It's really simple - I'd like to see one or two simple changes to make working in Orion that bit easier. A visible time display and better integrated effects automation windows are just 2 of them.
You constantly biting peoples heads off because they do things differently to you is, frankly, juvenile.

Fine. So put up with being frustrated and as pissed off about it as you obviously are. I don't even know why I would have thought that, as someone who is completely frustration-free in his workflow, I may have been able to offer assistance. Why I would bother to try is an even bigger mystery.

Rich doesn't want to do the work.

But he wants the wages from us though.

No, its going to be a free update AFAIK so it seems perfectly reasonable to me that he should spend his time on the things he believes are worth his while.
Over the years there have been plenty of things that I have asked for that Rich has said were irrelevant, like value readouts for knobs or non-maximised piano rolls or notes sounding in the piano roll for example, and I always end up seeing the wisdom of his attitude, although usually only after he has capitulated and included the feature. I've come to have enormous respect for Rich and I trust completely that whatever he feels needs doing to ORION will always be of benefit to our music, although often I'm too stupid to see it for myself until I start to work with it. OTOH, even I can plainly see that things that many users see as absolute essentials are a complete waste of programming resources.

[VitaminD]

my goodness.. lots of responses already..

I'd say platinum.. if only for the extra busses..

tbh I'm not a big fan of the built-in instruments (minus toxic and the 303 clone which I enjoy) but the power to route sayy.. multiple percussion tracks to one bus for eqing or compression or fxing.. (for example) is really nice.

I only wish I had an additional 2 to 4 strips on the subgroups panel.. or the ability to link one bus/subgroup to another.. that would be fun..

[TeeLangSun]

This next update seems to be shaping up to be the one that I've been campaigning for since years ago. The "little things" update. The stuff that just makes life easier. No "amazing" new synths or FX, just tweaks. It's what I've always said Orion's always been missing. I'm sure that this release won't be one to have new users lining up to purchase Orion, but it should help to keep some of the existing users satisfied.

[> DiGiT <]

hey tee i remember your name from years ago in the orion yahoo group. could i listen to some of your music perhaps?

[> DiGiT <]

bones your music is a dead ringer for skinny puppys sound circa 20 years ago. the game hasnt changed, only the playing field, yeah?

[2windy]

You're right Bones, it's Rich's call a in the end. I hardly used the time thingy and like you I haven't had too many feature requests go in, doesn't stop me rant about them occaisionally though.

I'd love to have both of VitD's idea in, I've been pushing for it for a couple of years now. You have no use for this as you have always stated but this would benefit me.

I only wish I had an additional 2 to 4 strips on the subgroups panel.. or the ability to link one bus/subgroup to another.. that would be fun..

It's a fine line between what you consider useless bloat you wouldn't use and essential features I or others thinks we need.

[BONES]

Our music sounds nothing like Skinny Puppy ever did. OK, maybe one track off our first album [Obssession]. We use different sounds, different arrangements and my vocals are completely different. There are plenty of bands we sound a lot more like than them, like Numb or earlier Frontline Assembly even [both also from Vancouver].

[Glassback]

The time display is NOT always on top.

I am perfectly well aware of that which is why I move it so that there is nothing underneath it.

Did you actually read my post?

The mixer itself is large enough to fill most of the screen when there are several channels active.

The default mixer.

Oh, so you did read my post.

You give the impression that you think I've got a downer on Orion just because I have a couple of MINOR feature desires that would make MY workflow easier.

Not at all, i just think that its such a minor thing that I hav eno idea why anyone would care as passionately abou tit as you seem to.

Likewise, I can't understand why someone would be so passionately opposed to another way of thinking.

A working method that is simply different to yours.

And one which clearly causes you infinitely more frustration than mine does me.

I didn't say that. I said it would make things easier. Not that I think everything's impossible, mind you, just because certain (minor - that word again) features aren't included that I think would benefit it from MY pov.

I suppose I could use the stealth skin to make room to see the time display, but I don't because it's crap.

So use Azura or NOVA-II or Light, all of which have narrower mixer strips.

My problem with the narrow strips is I can't read the tiny fonts without straining. I like the look of the default. I've not tried Azura though, so I'll at least give it a look later. From the Synapse site I guess. I rarely go there, except to grab updates.

I couldn't care less what you think to the way I do things and I don't care about the way you do them either. It's irrelevant.
It's really simple - I'd like to see one or two simple changes to make working in Orion that bit easier. A visible time display and better integrated effects automation windows are just 2 of them.
You constantly biting peoples heads off because they do things differently to you is, frankly, juvenile.

Fine. So put up with being frustrated and as pissed off about it as you obviously are. I don't even know why I would have thought that, as someone who is completely frustration-free in his workflow, I may have been able to offer assistance. Why I would bother to try is an even bigger mystery.

Indeed you may have been, but I find your mannerism a bit hard to swallow. Almost every time I read you I can hear you screaming. We seem to have a perpetual reaction/response thing going on.

Rich doesn't want to do the work.

But he wants the wages from us though.

No, its going to be a free update AFAIK so it seems perfectly reasonable to me that he should spend his time on the things he believes are worth his while.
Over the years there have been plenty of things that I have asked for that Rich has said were irrelevant, like value readouts for knobs or non-maximised piano rolls or notes sounding in the piano roll for example, and I always end up seeing the wisdom of his attitude, although usually only after he has capitulated and included the feature. I've come to have enormous respect for Rich and I trust completely that whatever he feels needs doing to ORION will always be of benefit to our music, although often I'm too stupid to see it for myself until I start to work with it. OTOH, even I can plainly see that things that many users see as absolute essentials are a complete waste of programming resources.

I don't for one minute doubt Rich's skills. After all, he's produced the best host on the market. I've got a couple of things I'd LIKE to see included but you seem to think I'd die or something if they weren't. I keep saying - they'd make life easier is all and certainly (imo) are sensible wishes whether you or Rich can see that or not. And again you use the term 'absolute essentials' and again I'll say - no. An improvement. Not an essential. I seem to have to keep repeating that.
Yes, it's great to get free upgrades - and each one definitely adds to the whole in positive ways and I guess while the upgrades are free I should be grateful, and I am, but at the same time Rich should listen to his customers. We're the end users at the end of the day and if there's a paid upgrade in the pipeline at some point in the distance, it'd be nice to think he was gonna sell us something that took into account what we want (in addition to the already splendid packages that we get) - and I don't just mean my wishes. It looks from this thread like user requests are often ignored.

[BONES]

Indeed you may have been, but I find your mannerism a bit hard to swallow. Almost every time I read you I can hear you screaming. We seem to have a perpetual reaction/response thing going on.

Only at your end. Did you reread the first post in this thread that caused you to fly off the handle? At least I treat everyone with equal disdain.

I don't for one minute doubt Rich's skills. After all, he's produced the best host on the market. I've got a couple of things I'd LIKE to see included but you seem to think I'd die or something if they weren't.

You're certainly getting worked up enough about it.

Yes, it's great to get free upgrades - and each one definitely adds to the whole in positive ways and I guess while the upgrades are free I should be grateful, and I am, but at the same time Rich should listen to his customers. We're the end users at the end of the day and if there's a paid upgrade in the pipeline at some point in the distance, it'd be nice to think he was gonna sell us something that took into account what we want (in addition to the already splendid packages that we get) - and I don't just mean my wishes. It looks from this thread like user requests are often ignored.

I don't really know for sure but I get the impression that we're the customers Rich is stuck with, not the ones he had in mind when he started down this road. I tihink he envisaged selling ORION into all the big studios rather than to all the single and double bedrooms. Its probably quite disappointing for him that the vast majority of his customers have a completely different agenda.

[VitaminD]

I don't really know for sure but I get the impression that we're the customers Rich is stuck with, not the ones he had in mind when he started down this road. I tihink he envisaged selling ORION into all the big studios rather than to all the single and double bedrooms. Its probably quite disappointing for him that the vast majority of his customers have a completely different agenda.

If this is the case then he probably needs to add a bunch of 'useless' features that 'no one' uses and reskin to a less cartoon look...

I know for you, this isnt a problem (since you're a graphic designer and can create what you want) BUT...
...I hope with some of the income he gets from the v7 upgrade, he has enough to (and decides to) hire a professional team like (read: specifically) bitplant to reskin.. afterall, first impressions are lasting impressions..

[opia]

Bones mentioned earlier that Coramel is tweaking the skin for v7
I've been using a tweaked version of Coramel's skin for quite some time now.It's really not half bad

[Kriminal]

From the Synapse site I guess. I rarely go there, except to grab updates.

It looks from this thread like user requests are often ignored.

[Glassback]

bones, if you were an ambassador for MY company, I'd sack you.

Terribly sorry Rich has been saddled with us poor tossers who happily pay good money for his product. If 'Rich' actually thinks the way that you'd have us believe then I don't think he deserves any more of our money.
I don't know why I even bothered to try and have a reasonable discussion with you cos you're totally unable to be anything other than
macho-macho-maaan

Treat everybody with the same disdain? That's exactly what I've been talking about. Do you think it makes you look big?


I'm done with you. You're a waste of time trying to communicate with so I won't bother anymore.

[spaceman]

I don't really know for sure but I get the impression that we're the customers Rich is stuck with, not the ones he had in mind when he started down this road. I tihink he envisaged selling ORION into all the big studios rather than to all the single and double bedrooms. Its probably quite disappointing for him that the vast majority of his customers have a completely different agenda.

any sane man would read the biggest hint of all in that statement..

Orion is shit compared to the real sequencers