FL Studio is amazing. Why is it so cheap?

[John Vulich]

don't you have acid?

I don't do drugs... anymore.

[The Chase]

Ugh. Who does?

[camsr]

o man this thread is a laugh riot!

[John Vulich]

[Shane Sanders]

[camsr]

Think a cookie is all it takes to convert me to ORION?

O man, I gotta get outta here!

[tuz]

when is it coming out?

[ninjadroid]

Or you can get Audacity or a number of other audio app's for free. And what do you get for $49 from Imageline in comparison to what you would get from eXT? For starters it has a pino roll. This is not an ORION v FL debate, its about how Fruity's value stacks up and there are a variety of other options tha tshow that it doesn't necessarily stack up all that well.

Why does it not matter that FL includes this feature? How can you make a case for the importance of *any* feature if you just arbitrarily denote certain major features as unimportant? Your case against FL is not compelling due to logic like this.

Then you'd be wrong. Its about sounds and usability. 3xOsc is easily the pick of FL's generators but it can't do anything that you couldn't do in Crystal. I just didn't mention it because its not something I use but I think it will more than match 3xOsc for features. The ones I did mention will match it easily for sounds. I find 3xOsc one of the most annoying synths to program that I've ever encountered whereas Synth1 and PolyIblit are very usable.

Well, in terms of use and intent, Crystal and 3xOSC are in entirely different departments, but you say that doesn't concern you. What I don't get, then, if we're to judge by sound, is what the standard of proof of superiority is? How can I tell, for instance, that free plugins are better than FL built ins, but not better than Orion built ins? What metric are you using?

If you are so certain of the general superiority of free plugins, you've argued Orion out of usefulness. And if you aren't certain of the general superiority of free plugins, then we're back to trying to figure out a way to objectively rank plugins. Your position is not an easily tenable one.

I think that's reaching.

... as opposed to your most reasonable of approaches? Ha!

I believe I've been dispassionate. If you compare our signatures, and the content of our posts, it should be evident that I don't have a bone to pick with anyone. I'm certainly not arguing about a $1 price difference. If I'm not reasonable, I'm not sure what is.

Its cheaper than FL Express and it has a piano roll, a sampler adn the ability to load audio files. It may have recording, I dunno.

Actually, it does have audio recording, so I retract that. The remaining points still stand.

I assume you mean Sytrus and if its meant to be tweakable, why is its GUI spread out overe so many pages?

Correct, I meant Sytrus --- my apologies. And I don't comprehend your argument. Spreading parameters across multiple pages does not remove them. And the basic UI design rule of 7 +/- 4 is in favor of the Sytrus approach.

Tweakability means how many parameters you can tweak, and how much flexibility you have in their tweaking. It does not mean how big the GUI is.

I believe browsing the contents of sytrus.com should prove this to the satisfaction of any reasonable mind, but if you require my reiteration, I can do as much.

Feel free but you should understand that you'll just be speaking krap. Toxic 2 is a 4 op FM synth with a mod matrix, there is not to much you cannot do with a set-up like that. It certainly leaves the venerable DX-7 in the dust.

This is simultaneously myopic and mendacious, and self-evidently so.

As for the multisample ability, you could always do that using the FL layer tool.

Really? Load up a soundfont or an AKAI instrument? Or don't you know what multi-sampled instruments are?

Being a multisampler has nothing to do with the ability to load samplebank formats. I don't believe it is my understanding of the subject which requires edification, considering that I wrote a sampler of my own (no synthedit):

http://gazuga.net/specimen/

The FL sampler channel is nothing at all like ORION's Sampler, its mor elike a single channel from a DrumRack with added krap that no-one ever uses. The really cool stuff that we used to use all the time has been hidden away.

As I said before, it is the combination of the FL Sampler and Layer plugin which creates a sampling experience similar to Orion's sampler. And you can still get the legacy effects, if you so desire, with a simple flick in the preferences dialog, so that point is also moot.

That one is inherently better than the other is certainly not intuitively obvious.

Well, when one has a built-in loop-slicer and an editor capable of building multi-lyered, multi-sampled instruments and routing them to up to 16 different outputs, and the other one doesn't, most people would intuit that one was indeed better than the other. of course, when one has no f**king idea what one is talking about they may come to a different conclusion.

RE my "ignorance," see above. FL comes with a separate and very featureful beat slicer. Orion does have a leg up in the multi-layered department, but not in the multi-sampled department (once again, that's what the Layer plugin is for). And you get as many outputs as samplers with FL. And each sampler gives you far more tweakability than you get over any individual sampler in Orion's sampler.

RE adult language and personal insults: this does you no good when trying to make yourself look reasonable, and myself not so. And you might want to consider your track record on factual accuracy before implicating me of rash ignorance.

Yes but FM7 comes in a box with a printed manual so they are definitely making less money per unit sold. Its probably closer to the $75 IL get with the XXL bundle. TOXIC 2 is very damned good for $70 [or free if you are an ORION Platinum user].

So I can spend $349 in order to save $105. Brilliant!

I'm not sure who you were talking to here, but you misunderstand the math nonetheless. If you were to "buy your way up" from Producer to XXL edition in FL, you would spend an additional $475 (assuming IL wouldn't reduce costs proportionate to previous expenditures, which they do). On the other hand, XXL edition itself is $200 more expensive than Producer edition. So, if you want everything in the XXL package, you will save $275 by buying it.

So, we know that a software product can be sold in boxed form for no more than an additional $40.

But that doesn't include lifetime free upgrades, does it? How much extra is that?

This doesn't relate to anything. The answer you are seeking is left as an exercise to the reader.

Therefore, the adjusted online price for FM7 would be $249. That's still $70 more than Sytrus.

... which in turn is $98 more than Toxic 2. So the cheaper it is, the better it is too. Weird, huh?

That is certainly not what I argue. And if it is what you argue, then as I've said before, you argue Orion out of usefulness. I argue that FL offers good VFFM, and regarding this point in particular, I am arguing that Sytrus is not in the same price range as FM7. Have I not proven the latter to your satisfaction yet?

BTW, what happenned to TS404, I don't see it on the FL site any more? Did someone finally wake up to the fact that its a little dated?

It's still there, and I still use it. You can hear it here, as the "classic" 303 sound that comes in after the break:

http://gazuga.net/stuph/whosreadynowbitch.mp3

(mixing and mastering pending)

No, I'm a grown-up and have actual experience to draw on. I know I can get a minimum 25% of anything I buy from a music store. I also know that they are still making money from the sale with that kind of discount. So you'd have to think their margin is probably twice my discount which would make it 50% of RRP. Add maybe 20 points for distribution which leaves you with maybe 30% of RRP for the manufacturer which has to cover all his costs. When I owned a record shop, the retail margin was about 40% on CD's. In the job I have now, our resellers get around 50% of RRP on our software. But they have to deal with customers so they mostly earn it.

You've just argued *for* my position. And 'P' will suffice.

[Z3R0T0N1N]

ext records audio.

better seq than either fl or orion or reason, and as far as i can remember, proj 5 too.

better sampler than FL, equal to orion's, nnXT is a bit nicer but won't host vst fx as part of the sampler patch like ext's, and it is better than proj. 5's sampler too. although, i use shortcircuit mostly.

actually, if you pay the extra money for direct wave, then fl's sampler is as good as ext's.

ext is bursting with features that put pretty much every other host to shame as far as flexibility coupled with dead-simple ease of use.

so, in closing, and in conclusion, everyone on earth needs to get the hell off crack and buy energy xt.
it will help you achieve a perfect state of musical nirvana.

and you can use it inside FL (pointless) or orion (might actually be kind of cool since orion is such a different approach than most seq/hosts) or put FL inside ext (now we are getting somewhere )

oh, ps:

next version will run on linux, and have one of the most powerful and unique fm/hybrid synths in existence.



well, i have done it. I have settled the host-wars. oh my god!!!
now we can all get ext and live in peace and harmony ( and rythm and counterpoint ).

i love you guys

except that chopper guy. it was funny the first time man. a burn gets less funny in exponential proportion to how many times you recycle it.

good burn[not funny(2(not funny))]= negative funny.

(much like my anemic attempts at humour)

[rbet]

ye are all c**ts is what you are, arguing with BONES like that. Shame on ye all.

[rbet]

And if I might add, ONION is the best host indeed.

[Kriminal]

Only time i wonder why something is so cheap is if i am buying a car

[Z3R0T0N1N]

or if i'm buying drugs.

[hitman8081]

you know, ive learned from my years of producing, that its not about the famous statement "its not what you use but how you use it", but rather "does what you use, work for you best"? you can find that out by asking yourself honestly, "do you LOVE what you use" i myself still havent found that piece of software yet thats "the holy grail" and many people here say theres no such thing as the holy grail but i disagree, the holygrail imo is software that you love, works for you, and keeps you vibrantly creative.

i own fl studio but it doesnt inspire me. i own orion platinum but things about it annoy me. i just bought sonar home studio and ill see how that works out. in the end its all about what the software you use does for YOU. if your constantly scratching your head about how to use your software then it might be too advanced for you. but if your constantly scratching your head because you cant think of an idea then your software may not WORK for you

[advaya]

you know, ive learned from my years of producing, that its not about the famous statement "its not what you use but how you use it", but rather "does what you use, work for you best"?

Exactly how many years are we talking about here?

Just curious.