Orion??? POS/NEG opinions please... no trolls.

[vtx]

[dover666]

if you have a weak output on 1 side of a stereo vsti, I'd rather push that sides volume than ruin the stereo image by panning more to one side

you have GOT to be f**king kidding, right?

you have a problem that you feel language can solve,
is everybody 17 around here

i'm sure most of us are half your age.... and made it twice as far. bastard.

[vtx]

[arke]

if you have a weak output on 1 side of a stereo vsti, I'd rather push that sides volume than ruin the stereo image by panning more to one side

you have GOT to be f**king kidding, right?

you have a problem that you feel language can solve,
is everybody 17 around here

no no see here, its a thing called stupidity.

Let me explain how a pan button works. A pan button takes two buffers, lets call them BufferLeft and BufferRight. If the Pan button is less than a half, it will attenuate BufferLeft. If the Pan button is more than half, it will attenuate BufferRight. It will do so by the amount it is away from the half value.

So, wait ... what do two sliders do? Attenuate either the left, or the right ... woah!

Its the same f**king thing!

[vtx]

[spaceman]

if you have a weak output on 1 side of a stereo vsti, I'd rather push that sides volume than ruin the stereo image by panning more to one side

you have GOT to be f**king kidding, right?

you have a problem that you feel language can solve,
is everybody 17 around here

no no see here, its a thing called stupidity.

Let me explain how a pan button works. A pan button takes two buffers, lets call them BufferLeft and BufferRight. If the Pan button is less than a half, it will attenuate BufferLeft. If the Pan button is more than half, it will attenuate BufferRight. It will do so by the amount it is away from the half value.

So, wait ... what do two sliders do? Attenuate either the left, or the right ... woah!

Its the same f**king thing!

although with a pan you can't, say, lower left by 20% and up right by 42%..it's always balanced
one or the other

[vtx]

[crimsonwarlock]

although with a pan you can't, say, lower left by 20% and up right by 42%..it's always balanced one or the other

But the end result is the same. You don't actually HEAR a different specific level for the left and right channel, you actually hear the DIFFERENCE between the channels. So in your example there's a 62% difference. You will hear the exact same result with panning 31% to the right.

But think about this: when you have set the balance with your faders instead of the panning knob, changing your overall volume for that track in the mix becomes cumbersome as you have to maintain that difference on your faders manually, unless your host has an option to link/lock left-right faders in any current setting. When using panning, this problem does not exist.

[2windy]

ye, i'm definately going to buy the PLATINUM (thanks dave) version when i get a chance, i've discovered that for now, it will be impossible for me to continue work, without purchase of a new pc..... ^&*%$&^&%&#&

pro is a waste of money

You want to try 'Amatuer' then!

1 delay, 1 reverb, 1 flanger, a simple sampler, a basic run of the mill synth and a drum sampler. If you can still find it in the shops I believe it's project name was Reason 2!?!

[BONES]

The people who he's "stuck with" are the people who've paid him for all this time for his work.

So you've never been in an unrewarding job where you have found it difficult to focus on the things that the people you work for expect you to do and instead spent too much time on things that interest you and your employer feels are less relevant? I sure have.

Rather than being "stuck with" us, it'd improve the situation immensely if us customers and our views and opinions had a little more weight to them.

Maybe if so many of said suggestions weren't born of inexperience and/or ignorance it woul dbe easier for Rich to take them seriously. Most of see ORION and FL as competitive products but I think you will find that Rich is not interested in that market in the slightest,its just where his pricing has positioned him so he's stuck with it.

And from my POV, those of us who didn't make the switch to Platinum and part with more money, have been second class every since.

When you buy the second class product, how else would be expected to feel? I'm sure Pro will get a lot more trickle-down from the next release than it has for a while.

Gee, I wonder why it never happened...

I would say largely because its too difficult, as a new player, to break into that market. I certainly believe that ORION would be way mjore useful than Reason in that role, or even the big sequencers, but without market penetration amongst a studio's clientele it will never work.

A safe assumption would be that most of them, in the end, just want to get music done.

I certainly see very little evidence of that around here. I see that the vast majority just want to have fun.

Funny though that even the simplest suggestions regarding workflow enhancements (not even daring to think about features) are always met with a great deal of resistance. If not from Rich directly, from the vocal users.

That's because a lot of bells and whistles that you might see as a workflow enhancement, other people see as an unnecessary and inelegant way of doing something or awaste of development time that could be spent doing something more useful.

I pretty much gave up on suggesting anything after all the fighting about small stuff like the window behavior back in the day.

Is that before it got changed or after? I'm assuming after because Rich changed it at about v2 from "X"=minimise to "X"=delete and then 6 months later everyone wanted it to be something else. Hardly surprising that he hasn't changed it back since as it seems that whatever he does will piss somebody off.

Of course I could get eXT in the meantime since it's so "simple" and "easy to use" and has more features than anything else

I doubt I would find eXT easy to get anythign finsihed on. Its cool for doing simple things quickly but I think it would get complicated on you very quickly.

I don't know why I even bothered to try and have a reasonable discussion with you cos you're totally unable to be anything other than
macho-macho-maaan

FOr f**k's sake, what is your problem? I've been exchanging emails with Rich for 5 or 6 years and I have a pretty firm idea of his vision for ORION. If passing tha ton to you i soffensive, that i snot my fault. I'm not trying to be an ambassador for anyone, I'm just trying to tell you what I know or have perceived. If you're happier without any inside information adn you'd prefer to live in ignorance, fine. But don't shoot the f**king messenger.

Treat everybody with the same disdain? That's exactly what I've been talking about. Do you think it makes you look big?

No. Do you think you deserve any better? You sure don't from where I'm sitting. You strike me as the kind of self-centred prick who would be completely incapable of understanding the concept of philanthropy. Its all about you and I find that disgusting. I'd only have to tell you that to your face once and you'd never speak to me again but in places like this people tend to take offence at nothing and completely ignore actual insults, or deal with them in a completely different way.

I'm done with you. You're a waste of time trying to communicate with so I won't bother anymore.

Finally!

any sane man would read the biggest hint of all in that statement..

No. Sane men ignore anything you have to say.

There's actually one thing I've discovered in the past couple of days that is a real bother in OPlat - drawing automation "curves". The line tool is great for linear moves, but just try drawing an even partially smooth curve with the pencil tool!
The noise I make after spending ages trying to get a decently smooth curve is "aaarrggghhhh"!

For most things a straight line is the proper shape to use. e.g. volume is logarithmic so a straight line curve on a volume slider will give you smooth increase in level with not much of an obvious start/end. If you do want to smooth the start/end, just draw 3 straight lines. One at each end to ease in/out of the main one. Mostly I quantise my automation so that changes occur for each new note but remain constant for its duration. It keeps all the punch in basslines and stuff. And in Pattern mode there is the LFO tool which is very cool. Although these days I tend to just record my automation and leave it alone afterwards. I asked earlier but I still don't know how hosts with spline automation respond to recorded input and it seems to me that could be problematic.
If anything I'd prefer to see some implementation of automation "clips" that are spline-based, leaving the current automation system as it is.

wasp was always one of my favourite gui's, yet everyone always talked about how ugly it was. i don't like the new look of wasp at all.

What I hate about the default WaspXT is that the parameters are all over the place. e.g. The filter parameters come before the oscillators and the Amp Envelope is close to the filter whilst the Filter Envelope is as far fromt eh other filter controls as possible. I found it very hard to work with. Unfortunately the skinning mechanism doesn't allow me to move the filter type selector or the graphical envelopes so I've had to make my skins around that. If Rich ever fixes that issue I will be able to make something far more useful.

2 insert slots hey

I count 24. And what a total shit-fight the Logic mixer is. That krap would drive me nuts. Where is the EQ? And do I see only one send?

you know the word 'unlimited' like in .. inserts, .. busses, .. auxs

You say "unlimited", I say "unruly". My attitude has always been that if a sound needs more than one or two effects applied to it, its probably not the right sound and I'll go looking for something else. Keeps everything under control.

neither one has 2 sliders for the master, tsk, tsk, etc...

Are you talking about Left/Right? Pan works just as well. And there is the master volum eon the main toolbar so if all you want is "dual-throw", you have it already.

thanks, vtx, for pointing that out... perhaps someone fire up Synthedit and create a simple "Balance" effect, that will help us in the fight against unbalanced audio and DC offset!!

The Master Strip has pan and TobyBear has a great DC Killer plugin.

LISTEN TO BONE'S MUSIC, I HEARD ONE TRACK IT WAS OKAY, THEN I HEARD HOCICO - COMPARE !!

OK, now and go and listen to some early Hocico and some early Leaether Strip. You will find that they have totally ripped them off, after a couple of krap early releases. There is f**k-all going on in their mixes compared to us and what they do is way too dance-oriented for my liking. We're an electronic rock band which is probably why we get compared to Skinny Puppy as much as we do, even though I don't hear much in common at all. Hocico played on the same bill as us last year and they do put on a great live show but I only like one or two of their songs and I cannot get past the rip-off thing, much as I can't with Spetsnaz.

yep, this was the one USEFUL orion thread.
(I'm getting so fed up with f**king pissers)

Have a look, any thread that gets past 4 or 5 pages ceases to be overly useful but the first few pages of this should have given you all the info you needed so its probably safe to give up on it at this point. If you need any specific help or advice you can always contact me via PM or email.

although with a pan you can't, say, lower left by 20% and up right by 42%..it's always balanced
one or the other

No, for that you would have to use the Pan and Volume controls together. So you'd balance your stereo then set your level, no more or less effort than haing two sliders, although considerably less effort than having two sliders when your mix is properly balanced to start with [as it should be]. I think I would want to balance it via individual channels rather than compensate in my master section.

[arke]

Its the same f**king thing!

something tells me with the language thing again,
your from soundclick right

....


just go away and wank or something, you're just making a complete ass of yourself

[TeeLangSun]

I don't really know for sure but I get the impression that we're the customers Rich is stuck with, not the ones he had in mind when he started down this road. I tihink he envisaged selling ORION into all the big studios rather than to all the single and double bedrooms. Its probably quite disappointing for him that the vast majority of his customers have a completely different agenda.

LOL. Yeah, when I first read this, I had a bad feeling. That one won't go over too well I thought. In case you didn't realize it at the time, that's pretty much an insult to Synapse's paying customers. I realize that you're not quoting Rich on this and I wouldn't lose sleep over it either way, but I also just disagree that he had such thoughts. Maybe he entertained such hopes, that Orion would attract a lot of professional users, but even that doesn't seem realistic. When Orion first came out, software seemed to have much less respect in professional circles. Nowadays, maybe that's a much more realistic goal.

Anyway, you're the unofficial Orion spokesperson, you can't go around saying stuff like that. LOL.

[dover666]

(this post is a little insane)

{edit- f**ked up the quote - f**k it}

You played with them... right on. What i say usually sounds insulting i'm sure, but I guess I was trying to say that the level is there... people can make it... it says in the bio they've been trying since fifteen years old to get out of the slum, and out there, sharing the message... that's where i'm at right now, bouncing from trailer park to parking lot, to alley, trying to keep my head above water. get in my way and i will kill and eat you, no matter who the f**k you are. so, poop.

GOOD JOB BONES!. I'd love to hear more of your work... since i've only heard "ShockNova" - maybe you send mp3... i am the type of guy to buy cds, just not when i'm so down and out....
(why don't i have a donate button on my site?)

f**k man.... f**k... shit. ARRRGHGH!!!!

[BONES]

Yeah, well my perspective on it is that I am happy to go wherever it is that Rich wants to take me because I don't believe for a minute that I know more than he does and I trust that if he does his own thing rather than the things I have asked for that it will be to my good in the long run. But it seems here that too many feel that they know best and that if Rich doesn't do what they want, we will all somehow be worse off. Realistically, the only person who will be worse off in that situation is Rich,a s he may lose customers. I'm sure he knows that but maybe he is not motivated by making money so much as making an objectively good product. And that's the point, I think he is far more objective about what is good and necessary than any of us here. His focus is always on quality, never on doing things simply to keep people happy. e.g. i suggested the other day that it might be cool to convert Scorpion over to a generator, the way Toxic has been, and include it in v7. His response wasa that he had recently being using Scorpion and he felt that it's quality no longer stacked up against the current crop of VSTi [so he basically said no to my idea]. He said something similar when I asked why he didn't include Hydra instead of licensing Toxic. Both sound great to me but he is far mroe focussed on quality than I would ever be. That's also why he's resisted so many pleads to make TS404 VSTi.

[BONES]

dover666, there are plenty of mp3's on our site, just not full tracks.