FL Studio is amazing. Why is it so cheap?

[hitman8081]

sure 2002 starting with techno ejay lol im only 26 but you can learn ALOT in 4 years. but this isnt about what i know, its about what ive learned and trying to help others

[advaya]

sure 2002 starting with techno ejay lol im only 26 but you can learn ALOT in 4 years. but this isnt about what i know, its about what ive learned and trying to help others

That's fair. And you're correct. Four years is plenty long to learn the ins-n-outs of this DAW stuff.

But the ejay years only get you half the experience points!

[diverdee]

Yeah - no level raises for ejay - that's like playing basic dnd & trying to bring your character into an ad@d game (ok - so that made me sound somewhat geekish - what can I say one of my housemates was a serious roleplaying addict).

[basic channel]

Did you look in the shop? HERE. You'll see that whilst the boxed editon [which has been $199 for some time now, not $249] is unavailable you can get a download version for $50 off. $199 - $50 = $149

Err..I don't see this either: http://www.synapse-audio.com/shop.php

Looks like $199 to me.

Anyway I love FLS (and SX2..and Reason..and XT..and beginning to love Podium )

I might even love Onion one day.

However, to suggest that FLS is grossly overpriced as a music production package is a bit unfair I think.

Never have I had some much instant gratification on a regular basis, for such relatively little dosh (except at the Headshop in Amsteram circa circa May 2000 )

PS And I know I'm late to the party here but..

In case you still haven't understood BONES:

-ORION has all of the features of all other sequencers together, for 1/10th of their price. If a sequencer has a feature that ORION has too, it's because it copied ORION. In fact, ORION is like the chuck norris of sequencers. ORION came before computers, and computers were only created for ORION to be given to the human race.

-only BONES can objectively compare sequencers, because he owns the ancient knowledge of sequencing. Humans can only subjectively compare, except chuk norris, who doesn't care, and BONES.

-if an app has a feature that ORION doesn't, and it's REALLY too obvious to deny it, it can only mean that:

a) ORION isn't made for this
b) it doesn't matter, because BONES doesn't need it, and ORION does everything he needs

-WASP is the ultimate synthesizer, and nothing will ever match it. WASP in FL, however, is total crap.

you guys recently got v6 and we're about to get v7

Yeah and we all know ORION leaves a bigger icon on your desktop, and has bigger DLLs.

Note to self: call next release version 9, so we'll be way ahead others.

Brightened up a particularly tedious period at work.

[Hink]

don't you have acid?

I don't do drugs... anymore.

too bad you didn't stop before the damage was done...

[DavenH]

It amazes me that Bones continually compares Sytrus to Toxic 2 by price with no regard to the considerable difference in features.

About the page interface of Sytrus: fyi, if Sytrus didn't utilize such an interface you would need a 100 inch screen at 7680 * 5760 resolution to fit the unpaged GUI, all of it which I use.

[The Chase]

It amazes me that Bones continually compares Sytrus to Toxic 2 by price with no regard to the considerable difference in features.

About the page interface of Sytrus: fyi, if Sytrus didn't utilize such an interface you would need a 100 inch screen at 7680 * 5760 resolution to fit the unpaged GUI, all of it which I use.

NOt necessarilly. The envelopes could be cut to a 4th of the size. Also you could cut the keyboard off (why do soft synths have KB's on them?. And there is a lot of wasted surface area on each page. It wouldn't be hard to cut it down into a single-paged GUI, granted it would have to be about the size of toxic.

[John Vulich]

too bad you didn't stop before the damage was done...

Thanks, thanks a lot.

[speccyteccy]

It amazes me that Bones continually compares Sytrus to Toxic 2 by price with no regard to the considerable difference in features.

About the page interface of Sytrus: fyi, if Sytrus didn't utilize such an interface you would need a 100 inch screen at 7680 * 5760 resolution to fit the unpaged GUI, all of it which I use.

NOt necessarilly. The envelopes could be cut to a 4th of the size. Also you could cut the keyboard off (why do soft synths have KB's on them?. And there is a lot of wasted surface area on each page. It wouldn't be hard to cut it down into a single-paged GUI, granted it would have to be about the size of toxic.

62 lfos and even more envelopes on one page!

[BONES]

Why does it not matter that FL includes this feature? How can you make a case for the importance of *any* feature if you just arbitrarily denote certain major features as unimportant? Your case against FL is not compelling due to logic like this.

Precisely. Why does it matter when I can get the same or better functionality for free? That's teh poiint, its only good value if there are no alternatives at a similar or better price. But there are so it isn't. You can say its good value compared to something specific but in general it won't always apply. e.g. I can say that a Ford Mondeo is good value compared to a Mercedes Benz E Series but that is hardly valid when its real competitors are Opel Vectra, VW Golf/Jetta, Toyota Camry, Mazda 6, etc.

Well, in terms of use and intent, Crystal and 3xOSC are in entirely different departments, but you say that doesn't concern you. What I don't get, then, if we're to judge by sound, is what the standard of proof of superiority is? How can I tell, for instance, that free plugins are better than FL built ins, but not better than Orion built ins? What metric are you using?

Which is why I was deliberately vague on that aspect of the comparisons I made. Its a total waste of time but you can't argue that the freebies I mentioned are valid alternatives and, by your own admission actually offer a far greater range of possibilities.

If you are so certain of the general superiority of free plugins, you've argued Orion out of usefulness.

Not really, it includes plenty of stuff there is no free alternative for like the IRP, Sampler or UltranWMS. And its only recently there has been a freebie equivalent to WaveFusion.

I'm certainly not arguing about a $1 price difference.

nor am I, I was just using it to illustrate that "lifetime free updates" doesn't mean anything and used that to head off "but you had to pay $50 for version 5" arguments. You can't read these things out of context without blowing them out of proportion. I think its perfectly reasonable for ImageLine to want to make a living, I just think their marketing approach is somewhat deceptive [but clearly very effective].

Correct, I meant Sytrus --- my apologies. And I don't comprehend your argument. Spreading parameters across multiple pages does not remove them. And the basic UI design rule of 7 +/- 4 is in favor of the Sytrus approach.

Well I equate tweakable with usable and multi-page GUI's are the opposite of usable.

This is simultaneously myopic and mendacious, and self-evidently so.

Why, because you are unable to grasp that what suits you may not suit everyone? I'm sure that Toxic 2 is more than capable of doing more than I could ever ask of it, it jsut doesn't have the same marketing push behind it that Sytrus has had so if you rely on using other people's work [which is perfectly valid] then sytrus may have more appeal. After all, you're the guy who pointed out how subjective comparisons are so it seems odd that 5 lines later youwould attempt to make one.

Being a multisampler has nothing to do with the ability to load samplebank formats. I don't believe it is my understanding of the subject which requires edification, considering that I wrote a sampler of my own (no synthedit):

Clearly this is not the case or you would realise that soundfont is a format developed for Creative soundblaster cards and that AKAI have been around just a little bit longer than Sampletank. Multi-sampled instruments are those which map multiple samples across a keyboard to achieve a realistic timbre across several octaves. The terminology has been fairly standard since I bought my first sampler in 1986. What you're talking about is layering which has been around since multi-tracking in the late 50's or so.

As I said before, it is the combination of the FL Sampler and Layer plugin which creates a sampling experience similar to Orion's sampler.

No its not. You are still using single samples being played back at every frequency.

And you can still get the legacy effects, if you so desire, with a simple flick in the preferences dialog

Gee, do you think maybe that's why I said "hidden away" and not "removed"?

RE my "ignorance," see above.

RE your ignorance, see above.

RE adult language and personal insults: this does you no good when trying to make yourself look reasonable, and myself not so. And you might want to consider your track record on factual accuracy before implicating me of rash ignorance.

please point me to a single instance of factual inaccuracy? Any thread, anywhere will do.

That is certainly not what I argue. And if it is what you argue, then as I've said before, you argue Orion out of usefulness. I argue that FL offers good VFFM, and regarding this point in particular, I am arguing that Sytrus is not in the same price range as FM7. Have I not proven the latter to your satisfaction yet?

Not if your price range was $150-$250, you haven't. And again, its the Mercedes vs Ford argument that only works in a vaccuum.

It's still there, and I still use it.

I wonder why its no longer listed anywhere that I could find on their site? It certainly isn't in their list of included generators.

ext is bursting with features that put pretty much every other host to shame as far as flexibility coupled with dead-simple ease of use.
so, in closing, and in conclusion, everyone on earth needs to get the hell off crack and buy energy xt.
it will help you achieve a perfect state of musical nirvana

I don't get that. I got really excited about it when I bought it and looked at all the Flash tutorials but I find it's workflow very convoluted and it takes a lot more effort to do things. About the only thing I use it for now is screenshotting my VSTi because they open in their own window and I don't have to clean it up. its flexibility definitely gets in the way of its ease of use.

It amazes me that Bones continually compares Sytrus to Toxic 2 by price with no regard to the considerable difference in features.

Which are not overly relevant when you can get roughly the same mileage out of each and from where I stand you can. The fact that you can do it with marginally fewer features in Toxic is something I would count as a plus.

For f**k's sake, I'm not saying FL is a rip-off but no reasonable comparison could conclude that is was "cheap" when you look at all the competition. No reasonable person could argue that you couldn't get damned close to all its power with eXT and freeware. And yes, exactly the same is true of ORION. So what? I've never asserted that ORION is cheap either. You can carry on about all the excrutiating minutae you like but its the big picture that determines the validity of this thread's title.

[grymmjack]

Note to self: call next release version 9, so we'll be way ahead others.

[The Chase]

It amazes me that Bones continually compares Sytrus to Toxic 2 by price with no regard to the considerable difference in features.

About the page interface of Sytrus: fyi, if Sytrus didn't utilize such an interface you would need a 100 inch screen at 7680 * 5760 resolution to fit the unpaged GUI, all of it which I use.

NOt necessarilly. The envelopes could be cut to a 4th of the size. Also you could cut the keyboard off (why do soft synths have KB's on them?. And there is a lot of wasted surface area on each page. It wouldn't be hard to cut it down into a single-paged GUI, granted it would have to be about the size of toxic.

62 lfos and even more envelopes on one page!

The LFO's would be built-in to the envelope window like now. I didnt mean complete one-page bit just so the operators and filters and fx all have their own page. Kinda like albino how certain windows have multiple uses, but all the windows are layed out onto one single page.

[grymmjack]

-BONES only wears his funny glasses not to hurt his eyes when looking at other crap sequencers

stop ... man... cant breathe... spleen hurts.

[DavenH]

It amazes me that Bones continually compares Sytrus to Toxic 2 by price with no regard to the considerable difference in features.

About the page interface of Sytrus: fyi, if Sytrus didn't utilize such an interface you would need a 100 inch screen at 7680 * 5760 resolution to fit the unpaged GUI, all of it which I use.

Not necessarilly. The envelopes could be cut to a 4th of the size. Also you could cut the keyboard off (why do soft synths have KB's on them?.

That would be a 3% reduction in the given size above (which isn't arbitrary btw).

And there is a lot of wasted surface area on each page.

Where? Sytrus has the least wasted space of any vsti I've seen - that's most of them on this site.

It wouldn't be hard to cut it down into a single-paged GUI, granted it would have to be about the size of toxic.

You haven't given this much thought... paging is absolutely necessary for the number of features in Sytrus. You would have to either reduce them all to 1% of their original size, or drop 99% of them for a single page gui.

[The Chase]

It amazes me that Bones continually compares Sytrus to Toxic 2 by price with no regard to the considerable difference in features.

About the page interface of Sytrus: fyi, if Sytrus didn't utilize such an interface you would need a 100 inch screen at 7680 * 5760 resolution to fit the unpaged GUI, all of it which I use.

Not necessarilly. The envelopes could be cut to a 4th of the size. Also you could cut the keyboard off (why do soft synths have KB's on them?.

That would be a 3% reduction in the given size above (which isn't arbitrary btw).

According to what math?

And there is a lot of wasted surface area on each page.

Where? Sytrus has the least wasted space of any vsti I've seen - that's most of them on this site.

Wasted surface area marked in yellow:


Look at how unbalanced it is. Compare the big knobs next to the tiny filter selection buttons, and look at the other, perfectly usable knobs of FL Studio:

It wouldn't be hard to cut it down into a single-paged GUI, granted it would have to be about the size of toxic.

You haven't given this much thought...

I think of it every time i load up sytrus.