Were the good old days better

[Josmoker]

Josmoker wrote:
To me Luke Vibert and Amon Tobin are both musical geniuses, certainly as much as Mozart.

But that's just fanboyism. Surely we can look beyond that. My favourite acts are Leaether Strip and Numb but I hardly think that Claus Larsen and Don Gordon are musical geniuses, they just do something that totally connects with me.

That's not entirely true. I know the difference between music I just like because I can connect to it and music I think is well done. My point was that even in this regard there will be a vast number of different opinions, thus showing how subjective and eluding the term "talent" is.

[jens]

I find it difficult to take him seriously anyway because he used to be in Buggles in the 80's

Really? I know Trevor Horn was, are you sure you're not mixed up? Seems pretty amazing that they both were.

I s**t you not see below

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001877/bio

I even found a (German) site that pretends he was in Ultravox

- that's just stupid!

http://www.hanszimmer-archiv.de/zimmer.htm

[jens]

I found the source for this bullshit:

The Buggles were a pop/rock band formed in 1977 consisting of Geoff Downes (percussion, keyboards), Trevor Horn (bass guitar, guitar, percussion, vocals) and Bruce Woolley. Before their first release, Woolley left the band to form The Camera Club, which included Thomas Dolby and Hans Zimmer.

one stupid person quotes this falsely and then everyone just continues to spread the mistake by having no clue but merely copying what the others wrote - journalists are all total dumbasses!

[dick]

There were quite a number of child prodigies in Mozarts time, but they remained children.

Maybe the issue is how does technology hinder or enhance musical skills.
For example listen to the orchestration by the past masters, now maybe i am mistaken but what modern pop genres have any where near that skill.

On the other hand in two hundrend years time if the art of jazz improvisation was lost, musicians would have a hell of a hard time putting together what most musicains of the jazz genre take for granted.

So i guess its not just about talent and technology but something that transcends both relative to what is happening in the culture at that time in history, its impossible to speculate what Mozart would do if he were alive.

[Ildon]

It can all be debated, however there's never been a better time to be an anti-social musician......who needs a band? No one needs a band, but it adds an element that one cannot get from self.

<---

[dick]

a question for all of you

1-Mozart lived 35 years
2- he composed just over 600 compostions
3- he used only a quilt pen
4- how long did it take him to write out all the notes of all his compostions?

My take is that Mozart was the master to end all masters
he could think musical thoughts faster than he could write them down

do the maths

[bugs]

Composers have always adopted the lastest technology as quickly as possible be it the printing press, the violin, keys mechanisms on woodwinds, valves on horns, the piano, electric triggering for organ, recording technologies, the electric guitar, computers, etc. (Mozart couldn't wait to use the new clarinet.) Anyone who thinks otherwise lives in some sort of Luddite dream world completely ignorant of the historical reality.

The vast majority of composers are mediocre, rarely survive their era and are rarely recognized during it. Performers, as individuals, have even less impact.

Incidently, composers historically have been "companies" with groups of assistants and copyists, much like film music composers (until recently). The auteur concept is relatively new--late Mozart and Beethoven--scoring and traditional music in general, is a very labor intensive process. The thing that remains constant is musicianship, not technology.

The computer as music tool is the most profound revolution since the printing press and it will be a while before things settle out, till the novelty fades. The cream doesn't rise to the top, the water based milk eventually sinks to the bottom once the agitation ceases.

[Ildon]

There were quite a number of child prodigies in Mozarts time, but they remained children.

Maybe the issue is how does technology hinder or enhance musical skills.
For example listen to the orchestration by the past masters, now maybe i am mistaken but what modern pop genres have any where near that skill.

On the other hand in two hundrend years time if the art of jazz improvisation was lost, musicians would have a hell of a hard time putting together what most musicains of the jazz genre take for granted.

So i guess its not just about talent and technology but something that transcends both relative to what is happening in the culture at that time in history, its impossible to speculate what Mozart would do if he were alive.

It's no longer about skill... at least with me. It's about expression and sharing those feelings with other people. I write minimalism and every so often do pop. Anyone with a basic understanding of music theory can do what I do, but it isn't about skill... it's about how I have the most fun expressing myself and how I reach other people. You know? I personally couldn't give two shits about how good Mozart or Bach were. It's irrelevant to me. I think a lot of people see it that way now.

[dick]

There were quite a number of child prodigies in Mozarts time, but they remained children.

Maybe the issue is how does technology hinder or enhance musical skills.
For example listen to the orchestration by the past masters, now maybe i am mistaken but what modern pop genres have any where near that skill.

On the other hand in two hundrend years time if the art of jazz improvisation was lost, musicians would have a hell of a hard time putting together what most musicains of the jazz genre take for granted.

So i guess its not just about talent and technology but something that transcends both relative to what is happening in the culture at that time in history, its impossible to speculate what Mozart would do if he were alive.

It's no longer about skill... at least with me. It's about expression and sharing those feelings with other people. I write minimalism and every so often do pop. Anyone with a basic understanding of music theory can do what I do, but it isn't about skill... it's about how I have the most fun expressing myself and how I reach other people. You know? I personally couldn't give two shits about how good Mozart or Bach were. It's irrelevant to me. I think a lot of people see it that way now.

But i take your point as a given, all music should be about expression!!!
But lets take a larger view, that is that modern concentration span is less than it was, or maybe concentration span is not equal for all time and social groups.

So define expression?

[mistertoast]

There's a lot of good musicians who can have a few hits.

Then there are some people who seem to be above all that. A good example, I think (aside from Mozart) is Skip James, whose guitar and vocal work seem timeless.

[nuffink]

[lowercase]

Just the saying "the good old days"........

[derail]

the good old days,,

[dick]

Composers have always adopted the lastest technology as quickly as possible be it the printing press, the violin, keys mechanisms on woodwinds, valves on horns, the piano, electric triggering for organ, recording technologies, the electric guitar, computers, etc. (Mozart couldn't wait to use the new clarinet.) Anyone who thinks otherwise lives in some sort of Luddite dream world completely ignorant of the historical reality.

The vast majority of composers are mediocre, rarely survive their era and are rarely recognized during it. Performers, as individuals, have even less impact.

Incidently, composers historically have been "companies" with groups of assistants and copyists, much like film music composers (until recently). The auteur concept is relatively new--late Mozart and Beethoven--scoring and traditional music in general, is a very labor intensive process. The thing that remains constant is musicianship, not technology.

The computer as music tool is the most profound revolution since the printing press and it will be a while before things settle out, till the novelty fades. The cream doesn't rise to the top, the water based milk eventually sinks to the bottom once the agitation ceases.

I agree, but all composers were not created equal, and some points in historic time have been more condusive to creative expression and the development of certain skills

So the question still stand, that there is a relationship between how technology allows us to develop skills and this has a direct relationship to talent

[Ildon]

I had this long post going... but I'm going to cut it down to a few words: expression can't be defined.

There're a lot more people composing these days than there were back then, so you're going to run into a lot of music that just won't do it for you. Does that necessarily mean the composer did a bad job just because you don't like it? Nope. "Skill" is relative.

I don't think you can compare any two composers, because everyone has their own way of doing things. I don't think you can compare say... Mozart to Beethoven. I don't think you can compare me to Reverse Engineer. I learned this recently.