Were the good old days better

[FaX]

Mozart was over-rated hehe

Seriously, it's called evolution. Innovation devolves to banality or nothingness, eventually

No actually it's called regresion beyond the mean.
It can also be proven to occur in both a math based and stat's based equation/evironment.

[dick]

I had this long post going... but I'm going to cut it down to a few words: expression can't be defined.

There're a lot more people composing these days than there were back then, so you're going to run into a lot of music that just won't do it for you. Does that necessarily mean the composer did a bad job just because you don't like it? Nope. "Skill" is relative.

I don't think you can compare any two composers, because everyone has their own way of doing things. I don't think you can compare say... Mozart to Beethoven. I don't think you can compare me to Reverse Engineer. I learned this recently.

yeah, I think you hit some important points, we also live longer and faster lives, could you imagine what life was like in the 18th century, in terms of what sounds you were exposed to? It must of been so sloow.

Your right each composer is unique, but i think again, because of communication technology, technology has changed the nature of how we use time and how we interact with each other.

So i guess technology is an important factor to how we express ourselves and relate to sound, and how we develop skills etc.

[FaX]

Oh and Mozart & Beethoven would be shit without the likes of Bach anyway.
Lets face it Bach was the yardstick by which both composers measured their own works and worth.
Personally I'd take Bach over either anyday of the week.
Still never found a better master of counterpoint anywhere IMHO.
Truly transcendental composition wise.
Oh and we wouldn't be scoring for orchestra and other instruments the way we still do today without him.

[dick]

Also I think composers of the past were not under the same pressure, which again comes back to technology, with improved technology, comes more breeding human beings, larger cities, more commodities, yuk less time to be for ourselves and more time being for someone else.

We become commodities in the technological process.

To live the life of Mozart today you would have to be a millionaire??

on the other hand average composers can thrive easily to produce commodified trash, that is a product of the race with time that technology has produced.

[FaX]

Hi
Call me stuck in time if you will!!BUT!!!!
The music of today is mainly boring especially repetative electronic music.
Jean Michel jarre had the right idea and at least changes the chord.
With the technology at peoples fingertips,masterpieces should be made.
If you look back at the late 60s and 70s music was for me and still is the best.

Go listen too some Richard H Kirk , Future Sound of London or god forbid a PetShopBoys album like "Behaviour" (Being Boring anybody ? I mean that in itself is one seriously great tune).
Not to mention the disco orgasm that is INTROSPECTIVE.
It wasn't hailed as the "Sgt.Peppers of Disco" for nothing.
Seriously though R.H.Kirk is fuggin awesome.
I still think Tennant and Lowe (PSB's) are two of the best popular songwriters of the last 20 years.
And what of artists like Jonn Foxx or Marc Almond etc etc.
You aren't opening your ears enough dude.

[dick]

Oh and Mozart & Beethoven would be shit without the likes of Bach anyway.
Lets face it Bach was the yardstick by which both composers measured their own works and worth.
Personally I'd take Bach over either anyday of the week.
Still never found a better master of counterpoint anywhere IMHO.
Truly transcendental composition wise.
Oh and we wouldn't be scoring for orchestra and other instruments the way we still do today without him.

Bach was certainly a great master, no one could argue there, and for sure he was crucial to how the tradition developed that included most of the composers right up to our own time.

But the issue still stand technology in all its manifestations, has and is altering our relationship to time and space and as a consequence altering our relationship to ourselves and our talents

[dick]

just carrying on with the point of cities, in Mozarts home town of Saltzburg the population was 17,000 people.

Now it is conceivable that Mozart could of know a third of the popultion of his birth place, remember transport was slow,remember no TV radio, computers.

His sense of himself would of been totally different, he could be alone with his creative potential with very little inteference from the outside, or at least have control of that outside interference.

Now compare that to a composer living in New York.

Lost in a crowd?? Lost in Mass communication and knowledge that would take 10,000 life times to assimilate.

[Killvehicle]

Also I think composers of the past were not under the same pressure, which again comes back to technology, with improved technology, comes more breeding human beings, larger cities, more commodities, yuk less time to be for ourselves and more time being for someone else.

We become commodities in the technological process.

To live the life of Mozart today you would have to be a millionaire??

on the other hand average composers can thrive easily to produce commodified trash, that is a product of the race with time that technology has produced.

I think compsers of the past were under MORE pressure to produce world class music.. NOw, no one really has that pressure unless they put it upon theirselves.

Every piece of shit music can be distributed nowadays, There is really no way to become great in todays standards like it was back years ago,, Which would lead to the perception of older times and music being better.

[Killvehicle]

just carrying on with the point of cities, in Mozarts home town of Saltzburg the population was 17,000 people.

Now it is conceivable that Mozart could of know a third of the popultion of his birth place, remember transport was slow,remember no TV radio, computers.

His sense of himself would of been totally different, he could be alone with his creative potential with very little inteference from the outside, or at least have control of that outside interference.

Now compare that to a composer living in New York.


Lost in a crowd?? Lost in Mass communication and knowledge that would take 10,000 life times to assimilate.

I think that is highly unlikly. He knew probabaly everybody or should I say Everybody KNEW him becasue he was producing groundbreaking music. He was known becasue he was great not because of the size of his town.

[dick]

Also I think composers of the past were not under the same pressure, which again comes back to technology, with improved technology, comes more breeding human beings, larger cities, more commodities, yuk less time to be for ourselves and more time being for someone else.

We become commodities in the technological process.

To live the life of Mozart today you would have to be a millionaire??

on the other hand average composers can thrive easily to produce commodified trash, that is a product of the race with time that technology has produced.

I think compsers of the past were under MORE pressure to produce world class music.. NOw, no one really has that pressure unless they put it upon theirselves.

Every piece of shit music can be distributed nowadays, There is really no way to become great in todays standards like it was back years ago,, Which would lead to the perception of older times and music being better.

well your probably correct, but isnt that good!!

You had to be good!!!

I think the rest of your post relates to the race with technological time, it demands increasing trash to feed the system, because most peoples lives are filled with surviving, not trying to comprehend the intricacies of advanced compostion.

Therefore trash survives, because technological time has created our relationship to time.

Because of this relationship to time, genuine talent is discouraged and ego maniacs who fit the race with technology survive.

[dick]

just carrying on with the point of cities, in Mozarts home town of Saltzburg the population was 17,000 people.

Now it is conceivable that Mozart could of know a third of the popultion of his birth place, remember transport was slow,remember no TV radio, computers.

His sense of himself would of been totally different, he could be alone with his creative potential with very little inteference from the outside, or at least have control of that outside interference.

Now compare that to a composer living in New York.


Lost in a crowd?? Lost in Mass communication and knowledge that would take 10,000 life times to assimilate.

I think that is highly unlikly. He knew probabaly everybody or should I say Everybody KNEW him becasue he was producing groundbreaking music. He was known becasue he was great not because of the size of his town.

you miss my point!!!

i meant it in terms of psychology, his sense of himself.

Anyway Mozart found 18th century Saltzburg deadening , becuase as a child his father spent most of his youth trying to make money out of him, and trying to promote him into higher paying gigs, by going on long trips to London and Paris etc which he failed in doing.

[Killvehicle]

Also I think composers of the past were not under the same pressure, which again comes back to technology, with improved technology, comes more breeding human beings, larger cities, more commodities, yuk less time to be for ourselves and more time being for someone else.

We become commodities in the technological process.

To live the life of Mozart today you would have to be a millionaire??

on the other hand average composers can thrive easily to produce commodified trash, that is a product of the race with time that technology has produced.

I think compsers of the past were under MORE pressure to produce world class music.. NOw, no one really has that pressure unless they put it upon theirselves.

Every piece of shit music can be distributed nowadays, There is really no way to become great in todays standards like it was back years ago,, Which would lead to the perception of older times and music being better.

well your probably correct, but isnt that good!!

You had to be good!!!

I think the rest of your post relates to the race with technological time, it demands increasing trash to feed the system, because most peoples lives are filled with surviving, not trying to comprehend the intricacies of advanced compostion.

Therefore trash survives, because technological time has created our relationship to time.

Because of this relationship to time, genuine talent is discouraged and ego maniacs who fit the race with technology survive.

right!! and it is good,, The reason trash survives is Society.! Society and religon, which by the way are hand and hand, created this vacuum where everyone must be treated equally,, when this just isnt true,, To say we are equal is bullshit and thats why there is so much trash to try and dig through. Althgough I am able to make music and make a decent living doing other things as well. Whcih was a point you made about just surviving,, I think mostof us do that but still hold onto our music(or whatver else makes us happy) and it enough,, but inreality its not and I would rather be a failed musician back in the old days than today,, becasue at least then I would have felt the defeat. MAke any sense? who knows. mayeb you all understand

[dick]

Killvehicle , you make a lot of sense, but dont confuse equality of our essential humanity with equality of our talents!!!

or maybe i should say that society and religion and science confuse the term equality, because to produce trash you dont need an essential humanity, you only need to satisfy the desires of the crowds psuedo selves.

So our stage of economic development demands a deadening of creative self and promotion of an uncreative self, because this is the best way for consumption of useless pointless commodities to exist.

WHich brings us right back to the beginning technology and talent are inter-dependant

[The Chase]

Dan Deacon

[vurt]

Dan Deacon