IKey question....

[LiteOn]

Hi MickGael,

Can't resist asking:

When you lose your car keys, in order to get them replaced do you have to pay for (buy) the car a 2nd time? That's how it works with Steinberg, I believe. You lose your dongle you have to buy the software again.

Can't resist either: When you loose your PCM91 when on the road (or it gets stolen) do you have to pay for the replacement unit a 2nd time?

Granted, as a dongle analogy it's poor - as poor as the car key one, IMO. I don't know wether there's a good one at all. I for one, I have become used to treat a software license just like a physical piece I buy. Actually, doing this was the only way for me to accept that a piece of software is something with an added value - something I have to pay for (and frankly, there were a time in my life when I didn't do that every time..).

However, if this perception is one (secondary) target the dongle stuff is aimed at, I would in return expect a dongled software to be treated that way by the producers. So, if the dongled license IS in fact (the piece of hardware) what one has finally payed for, the customer MUST be allowed to pass it on like any other used thing, WITHOUT any more restrictions (transfer fees etc.). To my knowledge, this is the case with e.g. Cubase.

Anyway, it's a neverending story whose direction the customers are affecting with their wallets (edit: what I did by purchasing CSR ).


cheers,
LiteOn

[BERFAB]

Yeah, and when I finally plop down the cash for CSR, I get to join the ranks of 3-key holders: Emagic, iLok and iKey.

Small price to pay...

[Squids]

Yeah, and when I finally plop down the cash for CSR, I get to join the ranks of 3-key holders: Emagic, iLok and iKey.

Small price to pay...

Join the club.

[beergeek]

I know that, in order to install the Korg key onto my Cubase dongle, I needed to upgrade to the latest version of the Syncrosoft software (free of charge) - perhaps the problems related to that?

Updating to the latest version when prompted is always important.

Yup....when I installed my SE3 upgrade, it installed an older Syncrosoft version than I had with Miro and CSR. So...Cubase would work ok for a while but then would complain and abort. Upgraded to the latest and no problems since. I have Cubase on one of the dongles and I'll transfer the other soon.


--Rob

[LiteOn]

Hi,

as for me, it was the other way round. CSR installed a new synchrosoft license control version. This was ok because this version must have been newer that the one coming along with the latest Cubase upgrade. I tell this because if I remember right from former Cubase update/downdate sessions, the synchrosoft installer never checks wether installation is really required in terms of version numbers. I soon noticed that the CSR synchrosoft key is always recognized after boot, which is in quite contrast to the one that originally came with Cubase (seems related to the combination of my mobo and the earlier hardware revision of that older key). So, I thought to move the cubase license over onto the CSR key. Quickly looked up the procedure in the synchrosoft help and was hesitating because for such a maybe risky action it appears a bit ambigous. Well, I couldn't resist and started. At the final step, the progress bar indicated I was almost through it, an error message popped up:

"Application 'LCCLocalTransferWizard:exclusive' has caused the following error:

There's a problem with USB communication. Please move the copy protection key into a different USB plug"

WTH, which key? Is my license already lost? When the weekend has just began? The license control manager still showed the licenses of both keys unchanged, uff! Transfer started again. The synchrosoft system remembered the prematurely aborted transfer and offered a resume - at least some signs of sophistication. The resume finally has worked, no more crawling underneath my desktop.


cheers,
LiteOn

[beergeek]

LiteOn...go to syncrosoft's site and ddownload the newest version. The install went fine for me BUT while I was in a Cubase project I was getting

There's a problem with USB communication. Please move the copy protection key into a different USB plug

actually it said port but I'm pretty sure it was the same message.


So make sure that you have the lastest LCC...version 5.X (can't remember...)

[LiteOn]

Hi beergeek,

although a quick test indicated that the "old" LCC version seemed to work I've installed the update (it's 5.0.2.0). There I noticed another oddity: nowhere I've found an installation document where it is clearly stated wether one has to deinstall the previos one or not before updating. Well, simple over installation seem to be ok.


Thanks & cheers,
LiteOn

[AndrewW]

Squids,

So what's the deal? With CSR you have a ikey, plus you need to authorize software like all the other IK pluducts? I thought that when you get a key for a software than that's the only thing that you need. Now with CSR you have 2 levels of copy protection. I don't like it!!! But I do like the way CSR sounds

[LiteOn]

Hi AndrewW,

since CSR is my first IK product I was also worrying: challenge/response AND a dongle, what the hell?

But as far as I understood the procedure, it serves two goals. First, you are forced to register the software to become associated with you (which acc. to Squids is the technical requirement for the IK crossgrade process). And secondly, the returned "serial" is needed to transform the 10-day grace period into the full license. The latter appeared to me as if it's the plain simple "download license" procedure defined by the synchrosoft copy protection system (the wizzards look very similar).
So, it compares to e.g. Cubase as follows:

Cubase
- you don't have to register
- you don't have to download the full license by yourself (Cubase is shipped with an already fully licensed key)
- you don't have to pay a transfer fee when selling
- you won't benefit from crossgrades because there are none

IK/CSR
within the first 10 days after installation
- you don't have to register
- you don't have to download the full license by yourself
- you don't have to pay a transfer fee when selling
- you won't benefit from crossgrades

after the 10th day
- you have to register
- to download and authorize the full license by yourself
- you will have to pay a transfer fee when selling
- you may benefit from future crossgrade options (which I found
really, really appealing in case of CSR!)

Although I haven't checked it on another machine yet, I indeed think there's no hardware-coupled "challenge/response" mechanism in the common sense - otherwise the only benefit of dongles for users (installation on multiple machines and floating the license by means of the dongle around) wouldn't work.

Hope, I got it (and your question..) right.

cheers,
LiteOn

[Squids]

Squids,

So what's the deal? With CSR you have a ikey, plus you need to authorize software like all the other IK pluducts? I thought that when you get a key for a software than that's the only thing that you need. Now with CSR you have 2 levels of copy protection. I don't like it!!! But I do like the way CSR sounds

Well, of course no one is supposed to LIKE copy protection. But, anyway, the key isn't there to replace challenge response authorization. In fact, the NEED to register is crucial to the way the IK instant qualifying crossgrade/upgrade system works (that way IK always knows if you are registered and qualify for something else automatically authorized by the system). But, what the key does is replace the digital ID having to be tied to the internal HD. It's tied to the key instead which is more portable and flexible for people who reformat or rearrange their system periodically.

Anyway, it doesn't take long and there are some benefits at least. But, also that's the way it is offered and there isn't anything I can do about it. I did ask once why it was that way though and it was explained about how the system works and to redo the whole customer database system and upgrade/crossgrade system would be a major ordeal (not to mention I can't think of a better way to be sure everyone registers... which is crucial in order to be able to offer those kinds of deals).

Like anything it has its plus and minus points. But, where it is a minor hassle here it is hassle-free in another situation with it. For example, say it is a hassle to spend 5 minutes doing the challenge-response. Okay. But, then you can go to any store that has another IK product upgrade or crossgrade that your previous purchase qualifies you for and all you have to do to buy it at a discount is... just buy it! You don't have to provide any proof of purchase because your challenge-response registration IS your proof! You don't even have to think about it and neither does the store because the IK authorization system will do it automatically as long as you are registered. If it wasn't required that you were registered this way then it couldn't be done this way (and that is why you don't see as many companies able to offer upgrade/crossgrades through the retail channels).

[AndrewW]

I think that at some point things with the copy protection could get messy with both authorizations and iKey. Hopefully this will not be the case.

But, the sound of CSR is great. I'm very happy with the way it sounds. It's nothing like the native reverbs I've heard so far. It's a lot smoother and has that more expensive hardware sound. Hopefully Amlitube 2 will be in the same league as CSR.

[Squids]

Hopefully Amlitube 2 will be in the same league as CSR.

Wait until you hear AT2 THROUGH CSR!!!! It's really powerful... you see AT2 is many things. It's a virtual amp collection, yes. It's a virtual stomp box collection, yes. It's an insane Bradshaw rig with ability to be fully configured and performance oriented... yes, yes... BUT, it's also something else! It's a freakin' DISTORTION TOOL BOX!!!!!! I mean, you can get so many different sounds of distortion out of it that even just for THAT alone it could be worth having and not just for guitarists but for producers, engineers, keyboardists, DJs... You can do some really huge sounding things with the combination of AT2 and CSR. Either sound design oriented or just pro studio classic album quality oriented.

All reside on one key just fine in my experience.

[Mr. Tunes]

Yeah, and when I finally plop down the cash for CSR, I get to join the ranks of 3-key holders: Emagic, iLok and iKey.

Small price to pay...

Join the club.

In the year 2000, a musician's status will be symbolized not by the car he drives, but by how many Keys he may possess

[MickGael]

Hi MickGael,

Can't resist asking:

When you lose your car keys, in order to get them replaced do you have to pay for (buy) the car a 2nd time? That's how it works with Steinberg, I believe. You lose your dongle you have to buy the software again.

Can't resist either: When you loose your PCM91 when on the road (or it gets stolen) do you have to pay for the replacement unit a 2nd time?

A fair point, but let's look at it this way: my PCM 81 never fell apart - which my Cubase dongle did (even though I have babied it) in less than a year. Currently, it's being held together with tape. And of course, there is the notion it it would take quite some doing to loose a rack reverb.

[beergeek]

Hi MickGael,

Can't resist asking:

When you lose your car keys, in order to get them replaced do you have to pay for (buy) the car a 2nd time? That's how it works with Steinberg, I believe. You lose your dongle you have to buy the software again.

Can't resist either: When you loose your PCM91 when on the road (or it gets stolen) do you have to pay for the replacement unit a 2nd time?

A fair point, but let's look at it this way: my PCM 81 never fell apart - which my Cubase dongle did (even though I have babied it) in less than a year. Currently, it's being held together with tape. And of course, there is the notion it it would take quite some doing to loose a rack reverb.

But you can replace that dongle for $25 and transfer the license...what about the PCM 81?