shotgun mic for feild recording?

[Genetic_Junk]

Does any one have experience with these in the field? I would like opinions on how well they ($200-300) reject noise from the side and pick up at long distances compared with a similar priced "normal" cardioid condenser mic.

Any help is appreciated.

[Spe3D]

A shotgun mic should not really be considered as a distance mic - distance mics (surveillance types) are a different beast altogether.

A shotgun mic works well at close distance and helps reduce side and rear interference. Of course the further away the subject is - the wider the field of sound coming into the mic - it's not as tight as a surveillance mic for distance recording.

A good all-round cheap shotgun mic is the Rode NTG2 (the two is the one with the optional battery power - helps save battery power in the recording device)

Get that complete with a deadcat (for wind noise suppression) and a suspension mount (for handerling and stand noise reduction) - plus a boom pole for getting closer to the sound source - you will have a very good shotgun set-up for field recording.

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

[deaf dunderkwac]

put a dollar amount, that really limits the discussion.
but that never stopped me fron pointing out a couple of things about shotgun mics.
The most inportant part of a shotgun mic, and the thing that sets the low frequency rejection, is the length of the tube i.e the longer the tube, the lower the frequency side rejecion. The 'real world' limit is around 100 hz, due in part, to the nature of low frequency propagation.
Over the years, somevery interesting shotguns have been built. The original design was by Harry Olsen of RCA labs. This thing consisted of a multitude of tubes at various lengths bundled together and feed into a horn to the mic element. Somebody, I forget exactly who, figured out that if you cut ports into the length of a tube, it would appproximate the 'multi-tube' thingy (analoguos to a simple flute or recorder vs a pan flute)
EV had their (RE6?) 6' shotgun that was used for many years at the presidential press conferences for picking up reporters' questions (2 of 'em, one on each side of the room operated on a turret stand and pointed at the speaker, like a 'shotgun') The Sennheiser 816 still has yet to be superceded in the field for long distance recording (compared to other shotguns).

An answer to your question demands a bit more detail about what you intend to record.

[Genetic_Junk]

Hi Spe3D and dunder. That rode seems to be pretty much what I need. Dunder I was going for the $200-300 range maybe 400 is it gets me a significantly better product. I intend to record plopping gurgling mud, fire, and other stuff you don't want to get a mic too close to.

Spe3D when I typed long distances I should have clarified, long just means being able to get a good s/n while keeping the source material out of the mic (water, fire, etc.)

Thanks for the info from both of ya.

[deaf dunderkwac]

find a 'used' 816 (ya, right) what Spe3D suggested is probably a good one... ( Hi Peter) I just like to toss in trivial informatiom to obscure and confuse!

[deaf dunderkwac]

http://www.lafcpug.org/review_shotgun_mic.html

has information which I basically agree with, but you will note that Sp3D's suggested mic isn't reviewed.

I mentiioned before that by adding a small bi-di head or even an omni head mic in the 'wind jammer' you've created the equivalent of a M-S microphone (you line the capsules up)
I did this with very good to excellent results using a 816 and a shoeps omni,. I also used the Shoeps bi-di head but found it to be a bit dicey in the post production process.
This set-up gives you the option of having a 'stereo' field recording and will do just what you need.

I also had occassion to use the Neumann stereo shotgun, which was easier to handle in the field (one cable from the boom into the control box) but to my ears, didn't achieve quite so remarkable results.
I did one early stereo show that ran on PBS stations til the mid-90s called "A Passion for Birds" where I used every mic'ing technique and every currently available (at that time) mic arrangement.
That show production taught me the most about these methods and I was able to use all these techniques because I knew I would be the final mixer on the project. No way would I cause another mixer to suffer my experiments (well, sometimes )

[MrM]

Just a thought; shotgun mics easily get confused with riffles, so be sure to identify yourself (visually) as a recordist; you wouldn't want to be thought of as a terrorist and get shot by the cops.
That is why I use a parabolic mic.

Also see http://www.telinga.com/attach.htm from http://www.telinga.com/

[Spe3D]

Spe3D when I typed long distances I should have clarified, long just means being able to get a good s/n while keeping the source material out of the mic (water, fire, etc.)

The Rode will do that job fine as you will be pretty close to the subject.

find a 'used' 816 (ya, right) what Spe3D suggested is probably a good one... ( Hi Peter) I just like to toss in trivial informatiom to obscure and confuse!

Hi! Dunder - yes they are good shotgun mics for the money, well within the budget of genetic (I actually use two of the things and found them to be pretty bit of kit for not a lot)

Just a thought; shotgun mics easily get confused with riffles, so be sure to identify yourself (visually) as a recordist; you wouldn't want to be thought of as a terrorist and get shot by the cops.
That is why I use a parabolic mic.

Also see http://www.telinga.com/attach.htm from http://www.telinga.com/

That's the things that make good distance recordings

on a side note

We got really really massive versions of the parabolic dish on the south coast in the uk made of concrete, (leftovers from the war going to decay), they were erected during the war before the invention of radar to hear oncoming enemy aircraft (from a long long way away) - except at that time they did not have the mic component - only hollow air tubes for the listener, but due to the construction they could also get a bearing off of the dish. They were called Sound Mirrors then http://www.ajg41.clara.co.uk/mirrors/

A parabolic dish is the thing needed for distance - they can cost quite a bit for good ones though.

Best regards,

Peter

[deaf dunderkwac]

We got really really massive versions of the parabolic dish on the south coast in the uk made of concrete, (leftovers from the war going to decay), they were erected during the war before the invention of radar to hear oncoming enemy aircraft (from a long long way away) - except at that time they did not have the mic component - only hollow air tubes for the listener, but due to the construction they could also get a bearing off of the dish.

A parabolic dish is the thing needed for distance - they can cost quite a bit for good ones though.

Best regards,

Peter

I want one!

(just kidding)

for sports we use these (the larger ones)
big ears

They are ok for bird calls also, but the thing to note about parabolics is the useable low-frequency responce is limited by the size of the dish. The big ears start around 350Hz

I think about a 2 meter diameter dish would be about right for quality SFX (try carrying that about!!!):lol:

[MrM]

Sorry to say so, but the Telinga can record way lower then 350 Hz; it can go as low as if there were no dish behind it, the dish only focusses, there have been folks doing very low freq stuff with it.
There's a myth that parabolics can't do low stuff, it's just that; a myth.

[MrM]

They are ok for bird calls also, but the thing to note about parabolics is the useable low-frequency responce is limited by the size of the dish. The big ears start around 350Hz

I think about a 2 meter diameter dish would be about right for quality SFX (try carrying that about!!!):lol:

http://www.parabs.com/MilitaryTactical/ ... ilEars.htm

100 Hz for the small version and only 350 Hz for the large version?
Get a better mic, or bypass the rumble filter

[deaf dunderkwac]

I love the bottom picture at the site you mentioned
Peter, that has noting to do with anything about the website and was labled such.

[deaf dunderkwac]

They are ok for bird calls also, but the thing to note about parabolics is the useable low-frequency responce is limited by the size of the dish. The big ears start around 350Hz

I think about a 2 meter diameter dish would be about right for quality SFX (try carrying that about!!!):lol:

http://www.parabs.com/MilitaryTactical/ ... ilEars.htm

100 Hz for the small version and only 350 Hz for the large version?
Get a better mic, or bypass the rumble filter

what the manufacture 'states' and what you actually get are always interesting (BTW, I know the guy who makes these things, as he ran a remote truck also)

you can always do it yourself

[Genetic_Junk]

Thanks for giving some direction here guys. I'm glad you pointed out the parabolic solution MrM. Like usual I just gotta check this stuff out for myself to determine if it will ultimately work for me.