Philharmonik Q: Cellos+Basses Stacc vs Composite Cellos+Bass

[Rellik]

Here's a little Philharmonik question that I'd like to pose to anybody who thinks they might have some idea:

Notice how beefy and great the "Cellos+Basses Stacc" patch is? It's in String Sections->Ens Cellos+Basses, if you can't find it. What I want to know is: why does it sound so beefy and great?

Try putting together your own Cellos+Basses Stacc patch, made from Cellos Stacc and Basses Stacc together. Even add in solo Cello Stacc and solo Bass Stacc at lower volumes (a wonderful trick that I learned here at KVR from someone in some thread!). It's not bad - but it doesn't come close to that Cellos+Basses Stacc ensemble patch, at least in my opinion.

So what is the difference here? What causes the discrepancy, and more importantly, what's the secret of it, so that I can do it myself?

Feel free to post combis that you've created that might display something informative!

[One thing I just found out: the stacc patches all have Sustain set to -100 dB - set it to 0 dB to get the full "flavor" it's a rather surprising difference, actually. Also, cello should take the leading role to help with the "crunch" factor - the basses are really only there for the bass factor. I shouldn't have taken so long in writing this post, I feel like I'm on the verge of answering my own question ]

[Squids]

Could be that they were played together live on those. Some of the mixed ensembles were recorded that way so you have the extra acoustics of the ensemble playing together in one hall. That's part of the secret why the Miroslav stuff sounds great in general. The acoustics of the space you record in can play a big part of the power of it or the blending ability of it. Plus each time they play, each time another take is done it can sound different! One may appeal to your taste better than another. That's the beauty of natural acoustic instrument performances. So much variation in expression.

[Kim Lajoie]

It depends how you play it too. With the ensemble patches, sometimes one note is the sound of all instruments playing. So basses+cellos stacc might have basses and cellos both playing together on one note (maybe an octave apart too), which would produce a much bigger sound.

So for example, you might normally score basses and cellos to play staccato together, with the cellos an octave (or two!) higher than the basses. So you have one MIDI track for the basses, and one MIDI track for the cellos. Each MIDI track would only have one note playing at once. That would give you the sound of two sections - the cello section and the bass section.

However, if you play the same thing with the "ensemble" patch, each note might have the sound of two sections, so when you play two notes, you're actually hearing the sound of four section - two cello sections and two bass sections.

-Kim.