Questions for producers/composers who sell/license music

[Bake]

for corporate or commercial purposes...

I desperately need advice on a few things...

Late last year I finally got my foot in the door and sold an original composition that a fairly big company used as the backing track that plays during their "trade show" video.
Since I had no track record and was just happy to get paid for something, I accepted $600 for this 90 second piece.

Turns out they liked it a lot and now they are sending me a contract to license 2 full songs of mine that they heard. Pieces of these songs will be used in a "documentary" of a fictitous character that sums up a product campaign. Thing is, they want to pay me only $250 per song for this right. This is not for song ownership or anything, just the rights to use the music however they want in the documentary.

I have no idea what the going rate is or what this should be worth. It sounds to me like I'm getting lowballed. But, this is a business that I am desperately trying to obtain work in so I can build a portfolio. I don't want to be difficult to deal with.

I am looking for any advice that I can get from people who activly compose and sell material for jobs like this.
Please feel free to let me know what I should be doing with this. I would like to make a career out of it (who wouldn't!).

[Bake]

or if anyone knows of a forum where these kinds of questions might get answered. That would also be helpful.

thanks in advance...

[rpc9943]

In my opinion its only two songs and your first in, might as well jump on it and see where it takes you... right?

RonC

[Ildon]

Thing is, they want to pay me only $250 per song for this right. This is not for song ownership or anything, just the rights to use the music however they want in the documentary.

That's reasonable. Go for it. You're not getting ripped off because you'll still own the copyrights to your music. If you were selling your music altogether, you'd normally charge twice that amount.

[C00kie]

If your gut feeling tells you you're being taken to the cleaners ($900 for 90 secs, and now 250 for a whole song!?) then try to negotiate. Maybe they are willing to pay a bit more, but you have to ask first to discover that...

[Ildon]

With the post above, Bake, I just assumed you sold them the 90 second song with all the rights. You're just letting them use the other tracks, right? That'd explain the price jump. If you didn't sell all the rights to the 90 second track, you're getting ripped off, but that's common sense.

You have to realize, you're not going to get a lot of money at first. When I first started out, I did a lot of volunteer work and only accepted payment when people insisted on paying me. I'm not saying you should go that far, but you need to build a portfolio and a reputation first before asking for a lot of money for your stuff. I'm with rpc on this one.

[spuddle]

Wow money for his music..

*dreams*

[M'Snah]

Turns out they liked it a lot and now they are sending me a contract to license 2 full songs of mine that they heard.

Congrats !!

[Bake]

thanks for the advice peeps.
I feel pretty good about this today.

[jivamukti]

I don't yet make money with my music but I think you should consider what the tracks are worth to the company and how much they are going to earn using them (you're saying they are rather big). Now of course the direct impact on revenue of using your tracks is impossible to estimate, but I think you should still consider it in a general sense and could talk to them about it if you feel you are underpaid. Music after all plays a significant part in ads catching ppl's attention and holding it. But don't push, be matter-of-fact and support your case with reasonable argumentation. I think their trump card is saying they can easily get other tracks from other ppl if they deem you uncooperative to make you toe their line, but you can't really know if they are bluffing. Maybe they like your tracks best, but I'd play it safely and not risk ruining the deal. Anyway, good luck with your career.

[Barf]

Wow money for his music..

*dreams*

Yeah what a lucky bastard! And he's still complaining!

[Bake]

I don't yet make money with my music but I think you should consider what the tracks are worth to the company and how much they are going to earn using them (you're saying they are rather big). Now of course the direct impact on revenue of using your tracks is impossible to estimate, but I think you should still consider it in a general sense and could talk to them about it if you feel you are underpaid. Music after all plays a significant part in ads catching ppl's attention and holding it. But don't push, be matter-of-fact and support your case with reasonable argumentation. I think their trump card is saying they can easily get other tracks from other ppl if they deem you uncooperative to make you toe their line, but you can't really know if they are bluffing. Maybe they like your tracks best, but I'd play it safely and not risk ruining the deal. Anyway, good luck with your career.

this is exactly what bothers me. After the first video was finished, I found out that the budget was over $50,000. I only saw $600 of that and when I saw the finished work, I realized how essential the music was to the video presentation. It propelled the whole thing and the graphics were built around the tempo of my track.
I felt like I got screwed just a little bit.
Anyhoo, I don't feel like I'm complaining as much as trying to figure out what current markets are for this kind of work.

keep in mind that this a company that is S&P 500 with revenue of $1.88 BILLION.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=TLAB

[MadPsyance]

I'd like to congratulate you Bake. It's always inspiring to hear people getting financial recognition for their work.