CSR - Questions, first experience (Demo), no dongle talk

[susiwong]

Started the CSR demo tonight, got some stuff to discuss.
Please keep dongles out of this thread !
1. So far I like CSR pretty well, though it's too early to finally decide on buying.
2. UI works surprisingly well, though an optional graphical display would be nice.
3. Only tried with drums so far, really good and varied sounds, easy to tweak.
3. Preset selection
Does the full version come with fxbs ? If not, please make them available. Many people are used to them, and choosing a preset is much easier.
Whoever chose that extremely small font for the preset menu ? Please take a week off and when you come back in a better mood give us a decent font at least twice as big. Everything else in CSR is so easy on the eyes...
(I'm on 1280'1024 on 2 19" CRTs)
3. On some presets the reverb time pot does not work acoustically, the display changes though.
Bug or something I don't know yet ?
4. Changing a modulation target crashed SX 3.1.1 hard, taking down the RME HDSP driver. Reboot necessary. Never had that before.
5. Demo only gives me 25 starts. Not a biggie, but wouldn't it be possible to only keep the 10 day limit and drop the start limit ?
6. Should I decide on buying, would GROOVE MAKER LE qualify for the upgrade ?
7. Don't worry, I'll be back with more questions and impressions tomorrow when I had a chance to try CSR on vocals and guitars,
Cheers, susiwong

[Squids]

I find it to be exceptional on vocals and guitars. So, that should be fun. The Plate in particular and the Hall are my favorites.

Yes, even Groove Maker (or ANY IK product) qualifies for the ALL-GRADE deal and saves you money on CSR.

The font probably is what it is. I like the way it all looks graphically myself. I didn't design it. We just sell it on www.esoundz.com

Fxbs? I'll have to check. Don't think so. But, I am not sure off the top of my head. However, we're doing a bunch of free extra presets from esoundz for CSR users. So maybe we'll do some of those. I guess anyone can really so that's not a biggie.

It seems to work pretty solid on my systems. I haven't had it crash on me once. But, each person's system is different. It is best to report anything you think might be a bug directly to IK (this actually isn't IK's support forum... it is Sonic Reality which is IK's main sound development partner and also esoundz which sells various SR and IK products on line as a retailer). That can be done on this web site www.classikstudioreverb.com or www.ikmultimedia.com There's a user feedback or a tech support ticket (that's for anyone who has it already though).

That said, I'll pass this along to anyway. Also, I am not sure why some people are saying they are getting 25 starts or less when the news on KVR front page says 30 starts. I am going to ask about that one. But, anyway, I doubt that the starts/days is going to change. But, another way to look at it is a nice free rental! I rent gear all the time for studio sample sessions so I am one who can see the glass half full on that one. There have been many times where I've rented a piece of gear for a day only to find that it is something I need to get permanently for my set up. Hopefully that's how the CSR demo is used. That said, as usual I will ask if there can be more days and/or starts. Can't promise anything and I even think it isn't likely. But, I'll try for you guys.

[susiwong]

Hello Squids,
thanks for your reply. Good you clarified the esoundz / IK relationship, I was not aware of that.
Cool thing with Groovemaker LE, makes CSR even more attractive.
I'll report the possible bugs directly to IK then.
Talking about presets, Cubase's own preset menu (with fxbs / fxps) is much faster, since you can leave it open and step through the presets with the up/down arrows.
You can't make fxhs from scratch, you need one as a template afaik.
I'd like to be corrected here !
The tiny menus are not a cosmetical issue, they are so hard to read at higher resolutions...
I hate that with some NI products, too.
Thanks again for your support,
susiwong

[sghoughton]

I only got 25 as well.

steve

[Squids]

Hello Squids,
thanks for your reply. Good you clarified the esoundz / IK relationship, I was not aware of that.
Cool thing with Groovemaker LE, makes CSR even more attractive.
I'll report the possible bugs directly to IK then.
Talking about presets, Cubase's own preset menu (with fxbs / fxps) is much faster, since you can leave it open and step through the presets with the up/down arrows.
You can't make fxhs from scratch, you need one as a template afaik.
I'd like to be corrected here !
The tiny menus are not a cosmetical issue, they are so hard to read at higher resolutions...
I hate that with some NI products, too.
Thanks again for your support,
susiwong

The FXB/FXP patches are proprietary to VST but CSR is also other formats like RTAS and AU. So, to have them come up in that area would have to be done by a third party or even yourself in something like Cubase. Just load up the patch and save it from just outside the plug-in where it says save. That should work for FXPs at least unless I am mistaken.

[susiwong]

OK, now my 25 starts are used up.
I'll try to give you a short summary of my tests (strictly personal opinions, ymmv of course).
The CSR is a very fine reverb, probably the most versatile all in one VST reverb out there atm.
The pricing is about right, too, at about 210 Euros including VAT and Groove Maker LE (for the upgrade). But let me put it this way, for 300 or more Euros a combination of different other reverbs might be a worthy alternative.
And that's the main reason I won't buy it.
I have the 3 UAD reverbs, Ultrafunk, Kjaerhus, Ambience (the SX clone) and SIR, probably forgot some, and CSR doesn't bring that many new or better sounds for me, possible exception the nonlin stuff (which I don't frequently need).

PROs :
- great sound
- very low CPU hit
- versatility
- good user interface and parameter set, very nice that the parameters are conservatively named, anybody coming from Yamaha, Roland, Lexicon or TC hardware will not need a manual. Big advantage !
- good all-in-one solution

NEUTRAL :
- Price, as mentioned above
- Syncrosoft dongle, I personally wouldn't mind that much, since I'm running SX anyway

CONs :
- if you own some of the better reverbs already, you might not really need it
- 4 separate plugins instead of one with a mode switch - IK sacrifice convenience of use for marketing hype here (4 plugins at that price ... LOL)
- not that many presets, some of average quality, CSR is capable of much more if you start editing a bit
- stupidly small preset selection menu font, I don't see any reason for that, and IK hopefully will change that asap
- no supplied fxbs - a real showstopper for me.
CSR's preset menu doesn't allow you to step through the presets one by one with the arrow keys or the mousewheel, which for me is quite essential for a convenient workflow.
Steinberg's fxb presets let you do that easily. And no, you can't create fxbs (banks!) from scratch, you need a template provided by the manufacturer (even an empty one with 128 slots would do). Small work for the programmers (approx. 1 or 2 hrs at worst), big annoyance for the users.

The stability issues in my first test have not returned, maybe it only needed a reboot after installing.

This little "review" only reflects my personal opinions, I tried to be as fair and unbiased as possible.
Please discuss this stuff, I would like to hear some different opinions (not about the dongle, though ).
Cheers, susiwong

[Melodioso]

Hello susiwong,

here's a short review I did that was posted a few days ago in another thread:

In response to Hybernation:

I tested the CSR demo a few times, so here is my (short) review ot it:

- it's a good reverb, especially for vocal, ac guitars and drums. There are many parameters to shape the sound. It can sound a bit metallic sometimes though...

- for classical or film music however, I wasn't impresed at all. I think GigaPulse sounds much better for example, it has more depth and is more natural sounding than CSR.

Depending on what style of music you are doing, it may be what you're looking for. But I don't think it's the one solution reverb... or the last one you're going to buy.

If you don't already have a good reverb, and if SIR or PristineSpace and the impulses you can find on the net are not enough, then I recommend it.

I agree with your comments, specially about the "4 separate plugins instead of one with a mode switch - IK sacrifices convenience of use for marketing hype here", I thought the same...

I found the Room and Plate ones to be very good, but was disappointed with the Hall. But I'm used to IR's, IR1 and GigaPulse, and to me, that's the best solution for "classical" or "hall type" reverb, they sound warmer. The Inverse mode was of no use to me.

Hey, that's my 100th post!

[susiwong]

Thanks, Melodioso,
I read that review. One of the very few constructive posts about this topic yet !
Cheers, susiwong

[harmony gardens]

OK, now my 25 starts are used up.
I'll try to give you a short summary of my tests (strictly personal opinions, ymmv of course).
The CSR is a very fine reverb, probably the most versatile all in one VST reverb out there atm.
The pricing is about right, too, at about 210 Euros including VAT and Groove Maker LE (for the upgrade). But let me put it this way, for 300 or more Euros a combination of different other reverbs might be a worthy alternative.
And that's the main reason I won't buy it.
I have the 3 UAD reverbs, Ultrafunk, Kjaerhus, Ambience (the SX clone) and SIR, probably forgot some, and CSR doesn't bring that many new or better sounds for me, possible exception the nonlin stuff (which I don't frequently need).

PROs :
- great sound
- very low CPU hit
- versatility
- good user interface and parameter set, very nice that the parameters are conservatively named, anybody coming from Yamaha, Roland, Lexicon or TC hardware will not need a manual. Big advantage !
- good all-in-one solution

NEUTRAL :
- Price, as mentioned above
- Syncrosoft dongle, I personally wouldn't mind that much, since I'm running SX anyway

CONs :
- if you own some of the better reverbs already, you might not really need it
- 4 separate plugins instead of one with a mode switch - IK sacrifice convenience of use for marketing hype here (4 plugins at that price ... LOL)
- not that many presets, some of average quality, CSR is capable of much more if you start editing a bit
- stupidly small preset selection menu font, I don't see any reason for that, and IK hopefully will change that asap
- no supplied fxbs - a real showstopper for me.
CSR's preset menu doesn't allow you to step through the presets one by one with the arrow keys or the mousewheel, which for me is quite essential for a convenient workflow.
Steinberg's fxb presets let you do that easily. And no, you can't create fxbs (banks!) from scratch, you need a template provided by the manufacturer (even an empty one with 128 slots would do). Small work for the programmers (approx. 1 or 2 hrs at worst), big annoyance for the users.

The stability issues in my first test have not returned, maybe it only needed a reboot after installing.

This little "review" only reflects my personal opinions, I tried to be as fair and unbiased as possible.
Please discuss this stuff, I would like to hear some different opinions (not about the dongle, though ).
Cheers, susiwong

I'm with you on the small fonts!!! My eyes aren't what they used to be, and I've complained about this with other IK products. I've also added my voice to the chorus of IK users who want scroll wheel operation. We got that with Sampletank 2.1, but it doesn't work inside of Sonar yet. These are rather minor gripes though, IMHO.

I suppose the idea of having four separate plugs vs one plug with 4 modes is simply a design decision. If the four modes would function differently, I would then reject the idea that this was done for "marketing hype". Each mode would function as it's own unique reverb, so it would still be like getting 4 different reverbs. Then again, a mode switch might be more convenient. I guess I couldn't call that a con, though, but that's just me.

As for the presets,,, well, When was the last time you bought something that came with presets that covered all the ground possible in the plug?? Squids has promised some custom presets for eSoundz customers, so I expect those to be a welcome addition. If you couldn't make your own tweaks, then I would consider the presets a con.

I will probably never use the reverse reverb.

IMHO, the pros far outweigh the cons. CSR has a much lower CPU hit that any compairable reverb. I don't think anyone would say that there aren't other good reverbs on the market, but I think at this price, CSR is still a remarkable value.

I keep talking about how cool it is to buy from eSoundz. If you purchase from them, your purchases accumulate into different membership levels that entitle you to better discounts. As a Platinum eSoundz member, I got CSR for such a good deal, I couldn't pass it up. You also get the extra level of support from Squids through the forum, and Elijah, Robert, and others who really care about making you happy.

Is CSR the only great reverb on the market??,,, no,,, but I know CSR is going to be the one I go to first.

[beergeek]

I keep talking about how cool it is to buy from eSoundz. If you purchase from them, your purchases accumulate into different membership levels that entitle you to better discounts. As a Platinum eSoundz member, I got CSR for such a good deal, I couldn't pass it up.

I know what you mean...it really does pay to buy from esoundz...after the crossgrade price, epointz and my gold discount...it was a no brainer! Even without all the financial incentives, I get treated better by phone/email from esoundz than I do in person at local music stores.

[dgkenney]

I've had CSR for a day and a half now and I am very impressed. I don't have a UAD card so I can't speak to their reverb offerings but the CSR is clearly nicer (IMO) than the other software reverbs I have been using.

What strikes me about CSR is the subtlenss and transparency that is available - often not even apparent until you shut it off. Of course it can be very dranatic also including larger spatial scapes, slapbacks, smearing and echos.

I agree with all the "pros" you listed and, at least for me, the cons you listed are not big factors if at all. But that's just me. I fancy myself a guitar player - singer - songwriter (though others would disagree ) and the CSR "sound" is very nice on vocals. I don't do more classical type music so I can't comment on the hall comparison with convolution plugs. Not saying that I will never use another reverb in my arsenel, but the CSR has moved into the "go-to" positon for me. I am also experiencing a rather low CPU hit with CSR which is always welcomed.

As HarmonyGardens has mentioned, if you are a gold or platinum member at esoundz, the crossgrade deal is amazing for the quality of this product.

All in all I am very pleased with CSR

Dan

[simplesimon]

Hey,

Just got my synchrosoft demo dongle today...now I tried unsuccessfully to validate the plugins in Logic several times, and they failed. I subsequently used up loads of starts, i've only got 10 left!!!

Its annoying, they seem like nice plugins. In the end, I used Rax to test the reverb, on my G5. They sound very nice, I am impressed...

What I would like to know, is what happens after my 10 starts are used up? Does the plugin not open at all, or can we still use it, albeit with annoying noise? I would like to know cause I would like to demo this plugin further, and it's a bit unclear on their site

[susiwong]

Frightening, such a long thread and no trolls in sight (yet) - seriously, folks, thanks for your opinions posted in such a constructive way.
I think we agree on a lot of observations, and still everybody's priorities and verdict are different.
Hey, that's how it should be and how I like it.
Cheers, susiwong

[simplesimon]

Yes I agree...the opinions on here persuaded me to get a synchrosoft key

Can anyone answer my question? Does the plugin completely disable after the demo starts? Would be a shame I havnt demoed it much ;-(. Might have to buy the damn thing

Simon

[harmony gardens]

Yes I agree...the opinions on here persuaded me to get a synchrosoft key

Can anyone answer my question? Does the plugin completely disable after the demo starts? Would be a shame I havnt demoed it much ;-(. Might have to buy the damn thing

Simon

I guess nobody knows, simplesimon. I got it without a demo at all, and I wasn't disappointed,,,I would guess that they are different, and once you used up your demo, that's it. Might as well delete it, and use the full version.

I honestly haven't read any posts from anyone who bought it that doesn't like it, and most LOVE it!! It's too bad they just don't give you a full month on the demo, but at least you get to drive it around the block to see what everyone is so excited about.