greeting. :-)
looks like i might be a regular contributor to the computer music magazine monthly sample collection (on the dvd). i would like these samples to be useable for making music, not just curiosities that sit on a virtual shelf. you could help me out by answering a few questions:
- are melodies (synth, bass lines, etc.) useful? if so: what key, how complex? my concern is that a melodic line is very specific and forces you to compose a certain way.
- are single long evolving notes/chords useful?
- should i always include a few different transpositions of each pitched (rather than percussive) sample? if so, how many?
- what are the kinds of samples you are looking for? (not musically speaking, rather format: melody, loop, fill, single not, construction kit, multisample map, etc.)
rachMiel
making samples, need your help please
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- KVRAF
- 3726 posts since 30 Jan, 2005 from rochester, ny
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- Tunesmith
- 2889 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Toronto
hmmm I haven't read Computer Music in ages but I do enjoy some of the samples that get released on Future Music US sometimes. Me personally, the last type of sample I want is melodic(unless it's a real horn or string riff that I can't do with the keyboard).
Single evolving chords are definitely useful to me, you can map them out in a sampler and do a lot of good stuff with them.
One shot drum hits and loops are my favourite, all styles. SFX hits and lines that are weird and glitchy I'm also starting to enjoy more. Also hits and stabs from real instruments are good too, like a wailing trumpet or something. I'm basically looking for stuff that I can't do so easily on my own.
I'd buy more sample CDs but I so many of them are overkill in the construction kits. I don't use the majority of sounds in the construction kits, sometimes they're good to hear how a good producer breaks it down though, but other than that I end up just using the drums and FX.
Single evolving chords are definitely useful to me, you can map them out in a sampler and do a lot of good stuff with them.
One shot drum hits and loops are my favourite, all styles. SFX hits and lines that are weird and glitchy I'm also starting to enjoy more. Also hits and stabs from real instruments are good too, like a wailing trumpet or something. I'm basically looking for stuff that I can't do so easily on my own.
I'd buy more sample CDs but I so many of them are overkill in the construction kits. I don't use the majority of sounds in the construction kits, sometimes they're good to hear how a good producer breaks it down though, but other than that I end up just using the drums and FX.
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- KVRian
- 783 posts since 6 Jan, 2006 from Premià
Hey, very cool of you to actually come here and ask! 
IMHO the most useful stuff is single hits, notes, multisampled maps, chords and pads. Evolving pads also if they are original. I tend to stay away from melodies, construction kits, and loops that I don't sample myself, as I feel they take something away. Although a few of them don't hurt IF the single hits and notes are also provided, as they can then be viewed as short demos of the material.
Transpositions of pitched stuff ARE useful. And even some percussive material would benefit from multisampling different velocities or ways of playing, particularly acoustic stuff (as opposed to synthetic). Anything that enhances playability without reducing control is useful in my book.
Hope this helps... cheers!
JJ.
IMHO the most useful stuff is single hits, notes, multisampled maps, chords and pads. Evolving pads also if they are original. I tend to stay away from melodies, construction kits, and loops that I don't sample myself, as I feel they take something away. Although a few of them don't hurt IF the single hits and notes are also provided, as they can then be viewed as short demos of the material.
Transpositions of pitched stuff ARE useful. And even some percussive material would benefit from multisampling different velocities or ways of playing, particularly acoustic stuff (as opposed to synthetic). Anything that enhances playability without reducing control is useful in my book.
Hope this helps... cheers!
JJ.
The mind boggles.
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Distorted_Mastermind Distorted_Mastermind https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=62388
- KVRist
- 391 posts since 22 Mar, 2005 from Kansas City, KS
For myself any type of real (non-synthesised) instrument is handy. preferably in multisamples. Drum hits are handy, but once again the real instrument is better in my book than drums sampled off records or from a drum synth. Guess my view on sampling is to use things I don't have access to.
Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
-Richard M. Nixon
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-Richard M. Nixon
www.myspace.com/pmf
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3726 posts since 30 Jan, 2005 from rochester, ny
> Me personally, the last type of sample I want is melodic (unless it's a real horn or string riff that I can't do with the keyboard).
good to know. is that because of the melody itself ... how it forces you to use it in a specific way?
> Single evolving chords are definitely useful to me, you can map them out in a sampler and do a lot of good stuff with them.
good.
> One shot drum hits and loops are my favourite, all styles. SFX hits and lines that are weird and glitchy I'm also starting to enjoy more. Also hits and stabs from real instruments are good too, like a wailing trumpet or something. I'm basically looking for stuff that I can't do so easily on my own.
i assume you would want the recorded acoustic samples to be unprocessed (no effects)?
> I'd buy more sample CDs but I so many of them are overkill in the construction kits. I don't use the majority of sounds in the construction kits,
me too.
> Hey, very cool of you to actually come here and ask!
i think kvr is the best online forum for questions like this. i've turned to it many times for my writing, design, and composition. :-)
> IMHO the most useful stuff is single hits, notes, multisampled maps, chords and pads. Evolving pads also if they are original.
good. very similar to what tunes said.
> I tend to stay away from melodies, construction kits, and loops that I don't sample myself, as I feel they take something away. Although a few of them don't hurt IF the single hits and notes are also provided, as they can then be viewed as short demos of the material.
interesting about the loops. i think a lot of people take pride in making their own loops rather than using existing ones (even with modification).
> Transpositions of pitched stuff ARE useful. And even some percussive material would benefit from multisampling different velocities or ways of playing, particularly acoustic stuff (as opposed to synthetic). Anything that enhances playability without reducing control is useful in my book.
good.
> For myself any type of real (non-synthesised) instrument is handy. preferably in multisamples.
a third vote for acoustic samples: it's unanimous! ;-)
> Drum hits are handy, but once again the real instrument is better in my book than drums sampled off records or from a drum synth. Guess my view on sampling is to use things I don't have access to.
a very useful point: offer sounds people can't easily make themselves.
thanks guys. :-)
anyone else ... ?
good to know. is that because of the melody itself ... how it forces you to use it in a specific way?
> Single evolving chords are definitely useful to me, you can map them out in a sampler and do a lot of good stuff with them.
good.
> One shot drum hits and loops are my favourite, all styles. SFX hits and lines that are weird and glitchy I'm also starting to enjoy more. Also hits and stabs from real instruments are good too, like a wailing trumpet or something. I'm basically looking for stuff that I can't do so easily on my own.
i assume you would want the recorded acoustic samples to be unprocessed (no effects)?
> I'd buy more sample CDs but I so many of them are overkill in the construction kits. I don't use the majority of sounds in the construction kits,
me too.
> Hey, very cool of you to actually come here and ask!
i think kvr is the best online forum for questions like this. i've turned to it many times for my writing, design, and composition. :-)
> IMHO the most useful stuff is single hits, notes, multisampled maps, chords and pads. Evolving pads also if they are original.
good. very similar to what tunes said.
> I tend to stay away from melodies, construction kits, and loops that I don't sample myself, as I feel they take something away. Although a few of them don't hurt IF the single hits and notes are also provided, as they can then be viewed as short demos of the material.
interesting about the loops. i think a lot of people take pride in making their own loops rather than using existing ones (even with modification).
> Transpositions of pitched stuff ARE useful. And even some percussive material would benefit from multisampling different velocities or ways of playing, particularly acoustic stuff (as opposed to synthetic). Anything that enhances playability without reducing control is useful in my book.
good.
> For myself any type of real (non-synthesised) instrument is handy. preferably in multisamples.
a third vote for acoustic samples: it's unanimous! ;-)
> Drum hits are handy, but once again the real instrument is better in my book than drums sampled off records or from a drum synth. Guess my view on sampling is to use things I don't have access to.
a very useful point: offer sounds people can't easily make themselves.
thanks guys. :-)
anyone else ... ?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3726 posts since 30 Jan, 2005 from rochester, ny
few more questions:
should the samples be "mastered": optimised in terms of volume, compression, timbre (equalized)?
should effects be added? or should the samples be "straight" and the effects added by users?
should they be normalized to 0 dB? even soft samples like pads?
should the samples be "mastered": optimised in terms of volume, compression, timbre (equalized)?
should effects be added? or should the samples be "straight" and the effects added by users?
should they be normalized to 0 dB? even soft samples like pads?
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
I can only second what has been said allready.
I like looped (with embedded loop points that is) and properly named multisamples of whatever stuff. No need for a dedicated sampler format in case they're named properly (such as "Sound01_F#3.wav") and don't require nifty things such as velocity switching (probably even with x-fades), round-robins, release samples, etc.
Properly looped and multisampled (=key, not velocity) things of interesting stuff are nothing you get too often.
I also like the odd drumkit. If possible, I'd stay as close to the GM standard layout, so one could easily use them as a replacement for existing patterns.
And finally I like some drum/percussion loops, but usually I prefer the less predictable ones.
With those, supplying them in REX format (additionally) would be a nice idea.
Personally, I never used a single premade line, chord pattern or whatever, but the ACID/Melodyne folks might think different about it.
I like looped (with embedded loop points that is) and properly named multisamples of whatever stuff. No need for a dedicated sampler format in case they're named properly (such as "Sound01_F#3.wav") and don't require nifty things such as velocity switching (probably even with x-fades), round-robins, release samples, etc.
Properly looped and multisampled (=key, not velocity) things of interesting stuff are nothing you get too often.
I also like the odd drumkit. If possible, I'd stay as close to the GM standard layout, so one could easily use them as a replacement for existing patterns.
And finally I like some drum/percussion loops, but usually I prefer the less predictable ones.
With those, supplying them in REX format (additionally) would be a nice idea.
Personally, I never used a single premade line, chord pattern or whatever, but the ACID/Melodyne folks might think different about it.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRian
- 1236 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Karlshamn, Sweden
that kinda depends for what kind of audience you are making the samples for rachmiel, doesnt it?
i personally would appreciate originality/personality in sounds, preferable created by synthesis.
SFX lines as stated above, would be most interesting to hear as well.
unaffected as much as possible.
i do however make a difference in using efx for the actual soundsource, and the regular use of efx on a sound.
but if i were one of them who just wanted to get started as soon as possible producing, and perhaps didnt know much about efx and whats not, then.. well the oposite.
i personally would appreciate originality/personality in sounds, preferable created by synthesis.
SFX lines as stated above, would be most interesting to hear as well.
unaffected as much as possible.
i do however make a difference in using efx for the actual soundsource, and the regular use of efx on a sound.
but if i were one of them who just wanted to get started as soon as possible producing, and perhaps didnt know much about efx and whats not, then.. well the oposite.
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- KVRAF
- 2344 posts since 8 Jul, 2002 from Limerick, Ireland
I'd like to add a different opinion if I may... perhaps slightly skewed but 
rachmiel my friend - I have LOTS of samples of pads/drum loops/acoustic instruments... I find myself searching for the oddities...
Many of your productions have sounds Ive NEVER heard before in them - - - THATS what I would jump at
Just an opinion!
Dave
rachmiel my friend - I have LOTS of samples of pads/drum loops/acoustic instruments... I find myself searching for the oddities...
Many of your productions have sounds Ive NEVER heard before in them - - - THATS what I would jump at
Just an opinion!
Dave
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- KVRian
- 783 posts since 6 Jan, 2006 from Premià
I prefer the source recording to be as good as possible and with as little fx as possible, particularly for acoustic sounds (unless the fx is an integral part of the desired sound of course): volume optimising, gentle compression if needed, perhaps a smooth high pass for stuff without meaningful bass content, all this I suppose is OK. More than that is better left for the mixing stage, no?rachmiel wrote:should the samples be "mastered": optimised in terms of volume, compression, timbre (equalized)? should effects be added? or should the samples be "straight" and the effects added by users?
Here I'd say keep everything more or less at potential mixing level. Why normalize a pad that will surely be lowered in volume afterwards?rachmiel wrote:should they be normalized to 0 dB? even soft samples like pads?
The mind boggles.
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- KVRian
- 783 posts since 6 Jan, 2006 from Premià
Actually I agree with this statement a lot, and sadly it's often forgotten... +1!mckenic wrote:I'd like to add a different opinion if I may... perhaps slightly skewed but
rachmiel my friend - I have LOTS of samples of pads/drum loops/acoustic instruments... I find myself searching for the oddities...
Many of your productions have sounds Ive NEVER heard before in them - - - THATS what I would jump at
Just an opinion!
Dave
The mind boggles.
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- Tunesmith
- 2889 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Toronto
Yeah it's just I'm mainly a keyboard player and guitarist, it's very hard for me to use a melody that I didn't write and feel good about it. The only time I make exceptions for horn/string riffs is when i'm doing a demo for a jingle or film or whatever and I need to woo someone in a competitive atmosphere with a tight deadline.rachmiel wrote:> Me personally, the last type of sample I want is melodic (unless it's a real horn or string riff that I can't do with the keyboard).
good to know. is that because of the melody itself ... how it forces you to use it in a specific way?
I actually don't mind certain effects, but in general this is why I've loved the Sampletank system for so many years - cause I have the option to hear the samples clean without any processing. In Cinematic Impact, Jeff Rona does something interesting where many of the samples have different degrees of Reverb. It's sort of a waste of space though on the disc making you think you got more for your money when you really are getting shafted.> One shot drum hits and loops are my favourite, all styles. SFX hits and lines that are weird and glitchy I'm also starting to enjoy more. Also hits and stabs from real instruments are good too, like a wailing trumpet or something. I'm basically looking for stuff that I can't do so easily on my own.
i assume you would want the recorded acoustic samples to be unprocessed (no effects)?
But for drum samples I definitely have no problem if they're nice and tightly compressed or distorted ready to go. When i'm working on a track I like my samplers locked and loaded ready to shoot!
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- KVRian
- 868 posts since 7 May, 2002 from Sydney, Australia
Yes, that was my immediate thought : there's lots of the other stuff around, so I'd like you to do more Rachmiel-like stuff, i.e like your Reaktor ensemblesmckenic wrote:I'd like to add a different opinion if I may... perhaps slightly skewed but
rachmiel my friend - I have LOTS of samples of pads/drum loops/acoustic instruments... I find myself searching for the oddities...
Many of your productions have sounds Ive NEVER heard before in them - - - THATS what I would jump at
Just an opinion!
Dave
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- KVRian
- 564 posts since 16 Nov, 2004 from The People's Republic of West Palm Beach
Yes, I thnk it'd be cool to have more unique sounding textures. There are alot of drum samples and the like, but I'm always looking for weird background sounds to incorperate into my songs (mostly rock based) I'm thinking stuff like machines f**king up and weird blats and beeps. I think whatever you do you should try and make it stand out from the massive amount of other samples available. Even if that means being completely off the wall. I think that as long as you do something you are proud of then it will go over well. Good luck.