Difference between REX2 and WAV Loops?

[spectrum]

PLUS... you can change the timing of when different slices sound. In other words, you can change the groove of a rex file (not just the tempo). This is huge in my book.

I agree...

I'm wondering actually on how accurate can be the combination of time stetching algorithm applied on REX files that have groove manipulations as main target
I knew an application called Alkali ( discontinued i think ) that was targeted on groove manipulation based with REX files, but without time-stretching algo...
I noticed ( only noticed, i'm a dinosaur still working on macos9 ! ) that a few loop-based samplers includes time stretch in their features,

what i'd like to know is how deep this concept of groove manipulation has been developped at the present time

I expect that, apart from the stretch/crunch engines, they are other simple treatments that can contribute to the purpose like changing volume or high frequencies on a single slice to modify it own character from the original groove ( smooth a previous accent and create another one somewhere else in the final, modified groove, for instance )...eventually compression/expansion applied on single slices, etc...

Heh-heh....I guess you haven't tried Stylus RMX yet?

You can do all of this kind of stuff in the RMX engine (and much more too!), because it relies on the REX style method of slicing.

http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/stylusrmx.html

The internal sounds of RMX take the concept of REX further with our method of development - called Groove Control®

[ohm]

Actually, Acididized wav files are also sliced

Careful, they're not actually "sliced", they contain tempo markers as you went on to describe in your post, and hence Acid files are Stretched/compressed to fit the tempo, rather than moved about like REX files, which IMO isn't ideal.

You are right - acidized files often contain more detailed information about the transients in the file, indende d to be used by the time stretching algo. to determine how far you can stretch that bit of sound.
There's no stopping developers of slicer software to interpret those markers as slices, this is what I do in LiveSlice. In some acidized files the markers come with a description of the sharpness of the transient - the sharpest can successfully be translated to slices.

A lot of software actually use acidized wave files as a "audio + slices" format, even though that's not what sonic foundry intended when they originally created the format.

Another difference is that rx2 files are often (or always??) compressed. I guess mainly to secure the copyright of the format, but it might affect sound quality. Some rx2 files are 12 bit. I'm not sure all rx2 files are compressed though, so it might not be a weakness in the format.

[Krakatau]

PLUS... you can change the timing of when different slices sound. In other words, you can change the groove of a rex file (not just the tempo). This is huge in my book.

Blablabla
Gnagnagna
et caetera

.

Heh-heh....I guess you haven't tried Stylus RMX yet?

You can do all of this kind of stuff in the RMX engine (and much more too!), because it relies on the REX style method of slicing.

http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/stylusrmx.html

The internal sounds of RMX take the concept of REX further with our method of development - called Groove Control®

indeed...

The dinosaur should migrate first , i'm afraid...

...but this is a good new, i've heard so much good things about Stylus RMX on this forum !

I would have many questions to ask to you for my guidance, but i'll have a deeper look on the related pages first...

[orange2k]

Another difference is that rx2 files are often (or always??) compressed. I guess mainly to secure the copyright of the format, but it might affect sound quality. Some rx2 files are 12 bit. I'm not sure all rx2 files are compressed though, so it might not be a weakness in the format.

rx2 files are compressed, but with non-lossy compression algo, something like FLAC...

[superddman]

i would be also cool if REX2 could retain the original attack/release regions, something like a three-part loop. First part has the original attack, second part is the looping part, and third part is the original release.

[lex_strooder]

... also... the REX does some magic on the end of each clip... time strech or something

[ohm]

... also... the REX does some magic on the end of each clip... time strech or something

That's up to the rex player, not the format. You can timestretch acidized loops in the same way

[spectrum]

... also... the REX does some magic on the end of each clip... time strech or something

That's up to the rex player, not the format. You can timestretch acidized loops in the same way

I believe that you're mistaken. Neither of those statements are accurate.

ReCycle does do it's own type of stretching on slices that is encoded into the REX File. When the File is decompressed, the special stretching info at the end of the slices can be used by the player. This is how we do REX importing in RMX.

For percussive material, the ReCycle approach is still one of the best methods out there.

The way ReCycle/REX does it is totally different sounding and an entirely different technique than Acid.

[spectrum]

FYI, If you'd like to compare the difference in sound between Acid and ReCycle/REX stretching on the same material (and also how both compare to our own SAGE/Groove Control® approach) check out the examples on this page:

http://www.spectrasonics.net/instrument ... son-tests/

They are "torture tests" that we did primarily to demonstrate what we can do now with our techniques, but you can easily hear how the results of ReCycle and with Acid are quite different sounding.

[Krakatau]

spectrum

Just in order to defy you a bit :

How would your groove control behave with a looped sample of a entire rock music mix ?

An example i have in mind : released in 1972, the intro of "highway star" from the band Deep Purple ( the album called "Machine head" ) that is purely a 4/4 ,squary, hard rock kind of music

this is of a perfect timing and a very simple groove ( probably easy to modify without severe artifacts, but absolutely no sequences inside ) would it be then possible, after overall adjustments of course, to turn it to some shuffle kind of groove ( like the BACKGROUND GROOVES of music of bands like Status Quo or Mungo Jerry, both from early seventies too, with thenss very similar kind of production ! )

This by stetching and crunching the appropriate slices inside the loops ?

[dougsyo]

Just a BTW, Dimension Pro 1.2 (just released) now does REX.

Doug

[ohm]

... also... the REX does some magic on the end of each clip... time strech or something

That's up to the rex player, not the format. You can timestretch acidized loops in the same way

I believe that you're mistaken. Neither of those statements are accurate.

ReCycle does do it's own type of stretching on slices that is encoded into the REX File. When the File is decompressed, the special stretching info at the end of the slices can be used by the player. This is how we do REX importing in RMX.

For percussive material, the ReCycle approach is still one of the best methods out there.

The way ReCycle/REX does it is totally different sounding and an entirely different technique than Acid.

thanks for the info, I didn't know they included loop points in the rx2 files. It's still posible for any slice playback engine to use the same timestretching techniqe as recycle on any sound material. I agree it's better than what acid does, this is why I've chosen this same technique for the new timestrecthing algo I'm working on for LiveSlice. It's not copyrighted by propellerheads I hope? AFAIR it's used in NI kontakt as well, so I guess not.

[loachm]

... also... the REX does some magic on the end of each clip... time strech or something

That's up to the rex player, not the format. You can timestretch acidized loops in the same way

I believe that you're mistaken. Neither of those statements are accurate.

ReCycle does do it's own type of stretching on slices that is encoded into the REX File. When the File is decompressed, the special stretching info at the end of the slices can be used by the player. This is how we do REX importing in RMX.

For percussive material, the ReCycle approach is still one of the best methods out there.

The way ReCycle/REX does it is totally different sounding and an entirely different technique than Acid.

thanks for the info, I didn't know they included loop points in the rx2 files. It's still posible for any slice playback engine to use the same timestretching techniqe as recycle on any sound material. I agree it's better than what acid does, this is why I've chosen this same technique for the new timestrecthing algo I'm working on for LiveSlice. It's not copyrighted by propellerheads I hope? AFAIR it's used in NI kontakt as well, so I guess not.

...I think, Recycle is looping a bit of each slice's end back and forth and applies a volume envelope to it. I did the same manually with Fasttracker 2 over 10 years ago - it was a nightmare to stretch loops like that. I was so happy when I bought Recycle - and I also think, it offers the best stretching method for percussive material. I'm not sure, what the beat machine of Kontakt does, but it doesn't sound like Recycle's method. Please, consider Rex-support for LiveSlice - there may be people out there with GBs of Loops converted into Rex (...I know at least one ...)

[ohm]

...I think, Recycle is looping a bit of each slice's end back and forth and applies a volume envelope to it. I did the same manually with Fasttracker 2 over 10 years ago - it was a nightmare to stretch loops like that. I was so happy when I bought Recycle - and I also think, it offers the best stretching method for percussive material. I'm not sure, what the beat machine of Kontakt does, but it doesn't sound like Recycle's method. Please, consider Rex-support for LiveSlice - there may be people out there with GBs of Loops converted into Rex (...I know at least one ...)

I already decided to add Rex-support to LiveSlice for that same reason - the format is very widespread. It will be in LiveSlice 1.5, next release is 1.4. I'm still gonna copy their stretching algorithm though As you say it's basically a crossfaded loop with a volume envelope - doesn't sound too hard to implement.

[krushing]

Zero-X's BeatCreator can export .rex files (just not .rx2, which is still exclusive to ReCycle).