Yo...
In my haste to find a transparent limiter & finish the CD...trying desperately to make it sound a little louder without changing any sonic character...I sort of got into it (in this BBS) with Aleksey, without fully examining the program; & hence drawing (un-researched) assumptions & conclusions.
Well...
Sorry ol' pal.
Maybe you're the man, after all.
Today, I discovered Clip Mode.
Wow, man! I set Elephant up in Clip Mode & 4X Oversampling across the stereo bus of one of my best projects; & bounced. Then, I disabled Elephant & bounced again (allowing the file to hard clip.) Then I brought them both into a new project & performed a null test.
The two files nulled perfectly except for the clipped regions (& all you could hear during those regions was the scratchy sound of the clipping & some faint music in the unprocessed file...of course.)
After the null test I listened to them both again; & the Elephant processed file sounded superior at those points.
But now (& please don't think I'm crazy for asking this, but...)...even tho these files nulled perfectly (save for the clipped regions)...the Elephant processed file sounded "thinner"....I swear to god.
I know that's not possible, since they nulled, but I swear I heard it.
Anybody have any answers on this phenomenon, or am I hearing things?
Thanks,
mark4man
BTW - I am happy I discovered this method; & I'm sure it will serve me well here in the mastering phase; & I'm sure I can now use the soft-clipped files...I'm just wondering why they sound different, despite nulling.
Busted on Elephant Prematurely...What a Dope
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- KVRAF
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
To be sure you are not hearing things, simply disable oversampling and perform the same test. If the sound is still 'thinner' to you - only god knows why.
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- KVRist
- 494 posts since 18 Jul, 2004
aleksey, just a question:
when i do this with gclip(without oversampling, 0% softness(means pretty hard) and elephant(clip, without oversampling, everything else not activated just the linking 100%) and the same amount of gain, they do not null. it's a drumloop, and there is a difference in the snare and kick that get clipped.
what is the reason for that? gclip seems to be harder(and i like that for my stuff) and elephant more gentle. i thought maybe i'm imaging things but the phase test shows that they are different.
when i do this with gclip(without oversampling, 0% softness(means pretty hard) and elephant(clip, without oversampling, everything else not activated just the linking 100%) and the same amount of gain, they do not null. it's a drumloop, and there is a difference in the snare and kick that get clipped.
what is the reason for that? gclip seems to be harder(and i like that for my stuff) and elephant more gentle. i thought maybe i'm imaging things but the phase test shows that they are different.
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- KVRian
- 520 posts since 13 Aug, 2002 from Salzburg, Austria
I use EL-2 almost everytime, it gives you better sound when hard limiting and is way easier than other algos on it.
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- KVRAF
- 4030 posts since 7 Sep, 2002
defjamm, they do not null because Elephant uses some kind of compression scheme during clipping. 'Clip' mode of Elephant is not a simple hardclip saturation.
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- KVRian
- 943 posts since 15 Mar, 2005
with transient heavy material i find gclip is more comparible to el clip mode with around 70% softness.defjamm wrote:what is the reason for that? gclip seems to be harder(and i like that for my stuff) and elephant more gentle. i thought maybe i'm imaging things but the phase test shows that they are different.
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- KVRist
- 461 posts since 12 Jan, 2003 from Kyoto
mark4man, I guess that even though the audio files only differ during the peaks, that difference in the peaks is affecting your overall impression of the entire file.
Although, I have a question -- can you identify the Elephant-processed file blind? That's the real test of whether you can hear a difference.
Anyway, if it's a problem, maybe try a touch of pre-EQ...
Although, I have a question -- can you identify the Elephant-processed file blind? That's the real test of whether you can hear a difference.
Anyway, if it's a problem, maybe try a touch of pre-EQ...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 72 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
Where in the heck do you set "softness" in Elephant. Looked for it in the help file, to no avail...am I missing something?with transient heavy material i find gclip is more comparible to el clip mode with around 70% softness.
Yeah, could be. But it seems to be a difference in the entire file, overall.mark4man, I guess that even though the audio files only differ during the peaks, that difference in the peaks is affecting your overall impression of the entire file. Although, I have a question -- can you identify the Elephant-processed file blind? That's the real test of whether you can hear a difference.
Had the wife administer the (blind) test, but I was already biased (looking to hear a "thinner" sound) & I picked it right out. Have yet to try Aleksey's test (no oversampling)...will check that out tonite.
Thanks,
mark4man
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Colonel Flashback Colonel Flashback https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=57766
- KVRian
- 898 posts since 12 Feb, 2005 from Green Man Inn
softness is in gclip 
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 72 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
OK...I'll bite:
What exactly is gclip; & how will it revolutionize the world of "getting it loud without a limiter" with today's clipping trend?
(which I must admit is much more transparent in nature than last year's multiband trend.)
But...more importantly...how does it sound?
mark4man
What exactly is gclip; & how will it revolutionize the world of "getting it loud without a limiter" with today's clipping trend?
(which I must admit is much more transparent in nature than last year's multiband trend.)
But...more importantly...how does it sound?
mark4man
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Colonel Flashback Colonel Flashback https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=57766
- KVRian
- 898 posts since 12 Feb, 2005 from Green Man Inn
try it, it's free
http://www.gvst.co.uk/gclip.htm
http://www.gvst.co.uk/gclip.htm