If the dongle is lost or breaks...

[Frippertronix]

Hi, I'm new to dongle protected software and I recently got CSR and AT2. It wasn't until installing AT2 last night that I even realized there is a unique license code preinstalled on the dongle they send you with the software.

My question is (pertaining to Syncrosoft): what if you lose the dongle or it breaks, either physically or electronically? You can't back your dongle license up, just transfer it from one dongle to another. Can you DL a "replacement" dongle license code in order to activate a new dongle for software you already own and have previsouly registered, should the need arise? Or, alternatively, would IK send you a replacement dongle w/ code if you needed one?

If not, then these really are very valuable and expensive dongles, and in light of how easily electronic devices break, I'll be pretty nervous about these things. I also wouldn't be inclined to transfer all my licenses over to one dongle, since if that one dongle broke or was lost, I would lose all my software.

[AndrewSimon]

From what I understand by reading the fine print:

1 If you loose it, it's gone and you will have to purchase the software all over again.

2 If it breaks you can send it in and they will get you a new one.

3 Don't put different company plugs on the same dongle.
If the dongle breaks both companies will ask you to send it in and they don't return it to you so you won't be able to send it in to the second company.
You will also be down with more plugs not just one.

4 Dongles don't break so easily, it's all low voltage solid state device similar to memory.

[Frippertronix]

From what I understand by reading the fine print:

1 If you loose it, it's gone and you will have to purchase the software all over again.

2 If it breaks you can send it in and they will get you a new one.

3 Don't put different company plugs on the same dongle.
If the dongle breaks both companies will ask you to send it in and they don't return it to you so you won't be able to send it in to the second company.
You will also be down with more plugs not just one.

4 Dongles don't break so easily, it's all low voltage solid state device similar to memory.

Well that settles one side of the issue, but I'm still not sure about putting more than one software license of any kind on a single dongle, in case of loss. Seems like a better idea to spread the risk out a bit. If you take your dongle out, you may only want to use one piece of software, so why risk losing all of them?

It sucks that they can't make these things thinner. Two will barely fit side by side in the back ports on my machine (Epox mo/bo), and one won't even fit next to my USB mouse plug without the two of them battling it out for space.

In response to your last point: true, but I have heard of flash memory failing, though I've never experienced it myself.

[AndrewSimon]

In response to your last point: true, but I have heard of flash memory failing, though I've never experienced it myself.

Don't get me wrong I hate dongles with a passion and yes they do fail but it's pretty rare.

My biggest problem with dongles is that they load your PCI/USB line a little bit and take a little bit of resources away.
Nothing major but just enough to force me to run my audio card with 128 samples instead of 64.
In other words dongles don't add anything to my system, they take away from it.

Amplitube2 is my only plug with a dongle and that's because it's so good and currently there is no clear alternative for it.

[princeofroles]

From what I understand by reading the fine print:

1 If you loose it, it's gone and you will have to purchase the software all over again.

This pretty well sums up why I'll never buy a product that requires any kind of dongle. Bad, bad, bad marketing choice IMHO. I buy lots of software, but still am 100% dongle-free, and expect to have enough alternate choices to remain that way. Sorry about the rant, but screwing around with hardware to protect software is just user hostile.

[Frippertronix]

Amplitube2 is my only plug with a dongle and that's because it's so good and currently there is no clear alternative for it.

I have CSR too.

[Squids]

Actually, that may be the blanket policy but I don't think it is quite as strict as that in reality. Obviously it is there to protect from people saying "woops, I lost it, can I have another?" and giving it to their friend. But, if you lost it (which you shouldn't do, just like you should look after ALL of your gear... ie. if you lose your laptop is Sony going to help you? Better have insurance) then you might still be able to explain your situation and perhaps just purchase a new key but not the whole software again.

The system is there to deter people from taking advantage of it which hurts the industry. It is a shame people even do that in the first place. But, they do. It isn't a marketing choice. It is a manufacturing choice and whether it is syncrosoft, Ilok or the Logic Key, Yellow Tools key, Bias, Sequoia or the list goes on you will see more and more companies protecting their products better with things like USB keys. Until there is a better form of protection anyway. I have yet to hear any better solution for copy protection from any "dongle-hater". I am SURE we'd all like everything to just be a serial that can be passed around. But, you'll notice that more and more companies can't afford to have that kind of vulnerability.

Understand that I don't think ANYONE (apart from dongle companies themselves) actually LIKES dongles. But, software tied to some hardware is so far the best form of copy protection. Anyone who choses to "revolt" against it doesn't need or want the software that use it bad enough! Believe me, I know this because I use ProTools, Logic and Cubase!!!! I have no choice but to have all three keys. But, I'm sure as hell not going to deprive myself of the compatibility of working with others in those formats and the benefits they provide (plus all of the plug-ins that only work with Ilok or syncrosoft). I honestly don't know too many pro musicians who would either.

I have not noticed any taxing of my system whatsoever though. Certainly not enough to feel the need to change buffer settings. I guess it depends on the interface. But, if it is Firewire or PCI bus then it really shouldn't make a difference. Maybe if it is a USB interface I suppose but even then... I'd be surprised really. Still, like it has been said, if that is the only way i tis offered and you still want/need it then...

[Kriminal]

ie. if you lose your laptop is Sony going to help you? Better have insurance)

so as long as you are insured, Sony will replace your laptop, all your software, all your data and all your dongles?


cool.

[kmonkey]

ie. if you lose your laptop is Sony going to help you? Better have insurance)

so as long as you are insured, Sony will replace your laptop, all your software, all your data and all your dongles?


cool.

Yeah...i was repeating same ironic question in my head. How can i insure my dongle

Anyway...(serious mode now)
Is there any solution for backing up dongles. You can purchase empty dongles everywhere. is there any software which can make image from one dongle to another? I know it's provocative question maybe but i am not looking to sell that kind of stuff. I am only worried for my licenses...

[LiteOn]

Is there any solution for backing up dongles. You can purchase empty dongles everywhere. is there any software which can make image from one dongle to another? I know it's provocative question maybe but i am not looking to sell that kind of stuff. I am only worried for my licenses...

wouldn't this just render a dongle-based licensing system useless?

[Cabinfever]

The more companies that start using dongles the more quickly are the Emperor's New Clothes stripped away and the farce revealed.

Quite apart from the usual insipid justifications we've heard so far, just take a moment to consider this:

How many synths, hosts and effects do you own ?
Now imagine that EVERY ONE used dongle protection.

Then what do you do ? Run a dongle for every plugin ? Or run everything off a "master dongle" ? Oh dear, now let's *really* hope that nothing happens to that dongle.

Imagine if every piece of hardware you own was tied to a single dongle ? You lose your laptop then everything in your house from a DVD player to your fridge to your ipod is also trashed. Would you ever accept such a stupid system ?

Then let's have a separaye dongle for each app. Great. I have about 60. Well, I'll just buy a 60-port USB hub then ? No effect on system performance ? Of course not.

This whole dongle thing is supremely unworkable as a long term solution. The more companies that chose this path the more unworkable it becomes.

[morelia]

Now imagine that EVERY ONE used dongle protection.

That a f**ked up thought.

[princeofroles]

Squids, I think you made some valid points in your reply, but I disagree with the central thesis....it IS a marketing decision to use dongles. I worked for game companies for years, and some used copy protection, some didn't....and the rational was "we've got to protect our software at any cost" versus "we've got to promote goodwill among our users, and if some pirates steal our product, they probably weren't going to buy it anyway". This same marketing decision goes on in the music software business... I use Cakewalk Sonar instead of Cubase largely for that reason (as well as Stylus versus Groove Agent, etc.). You're correct that if I NEEDED a specific product, I'd have no choice but to break down and buy it....but fortunately for consumers, there are generally several comparable choices for most softsynths (how many Mini-Moog emulators are there? Drums? Brass? Bas? Guitars? answer to all: Several)...so that we as consumers get to pick what is important to us. Long live capitalism!

[Squids]

ie. if you lose your laptop is Sony going to help you? Better have insurance)

so as long as you are insured, Sony will replace your laptop, all your software, all your data and all your dongles?


cool.

I hope so! I guess it depends on your insurance. If a Hurricane blows it all away apparently it isn't so easy. Good thing you don't live in Florida.

[Squids]

ie. if you lose your laptop is Sony going to help you? Better have insurance)

so as long as you are insured, Sony will replace your laptop, all your software, all your data and all your dongles?


cool.

Yeah...i was repeating same ironic question in my head. How can i insure my dongle

Anyway...(serious mode now)
Is there any solution for backing up dongles. You can purchase empty dongles everywhere. is there any software which can make image from one dongle to another? I know it's provocative question maybe but i am not looking to sell that kind of stuff. I am only worried for my licenses...

Not sure but I will find out. I did recommend the ability to buy additional licenses (same as multi-user licenses) so you could have multiple keys with the ability for more than one person to use it or for it to be in more than one place at a time or for back up. I will let you guys know when I find out what the possibilities are there.

Also, feel free to email requests to these companies that make these systems like syncrosoft and ilok. That's because even if a developer WANTS to do something (such as say have a daisy-chain hub key where you don't lose a port for example... which I personally would like) doesn't mean they can because they don't actually manufacture the key. Maybe a little steel key or something too if you don't like plastic. I've done my part in making requests from my side and will continue to do so. It's an evolution and I am one to always look for the best overall solution (of course, keeping in mind still that speaking for my company, SR, we use probably the least amount of copy protection of them all... not get confused there ok?).