KVR Audio

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:12 am

Hi,
I'm developing a hardware/software Leslie, I would like to know if people is interested so that I can choose how far to go with development.

It is a VST that gets mono sound as input, mangles it and controls four outputs. You get horn and bass emulation (with impulse response emulation and "rotating in a room" emulation)

Then you can choose between these two solutions:

- A "home-toy" solution: use four loudspeakers from you surround system. Put them in a particular configuration and get a two way Leslie (like the real one is). It is free.
- A "stage" solution: buy a special amplified loudspeaker. It is like a guitar amplifier but with a special configuration for cones and amplifier and it has a tube stage

Any suggestion/interest about this?

*****************EDIT**********************************

Now the vst effect can be downloaded from www.sknote.it

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Bye
Quinto[/img]

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:16 am

Did you check out pj geerlings Spinner? You'll have tough competition

. (Of course I'm only a home/toy guy

, and would have posted as well without the added incentive).

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:21 am

M'Snah wrote:Did you check out pj geerlings Spinner? You'll have tough competition . (Of course I'm only a home/toy guy , and would have posted as well without the added incentive).

Hi M'snaH

Very nice one!

But this is a different concept. You get a _real_ rotating two-bands signal in your _real_ room...

Sound is amplified and rotates, even though you can go free with your surround system

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:25 am

I see... sounds like a mixture of 3D panning with leslie characteristics?

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:34 am

It is a kind of "vectorial" rotation. No motor and contacts, just four lodspeakers centered and looking around and some calculations. It rotates in the room

asseca · Post by **asseca** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:51 am

This might be an interesting idea ... a real leslie always sounds better than an emulation ...

The "home" solution is only interesting when used in a "live/performance" situation, or could be of interest when making "surround" recordings.

The "stage" solution would only be interesting if the size/weight is much smaller/lighter than a real leslie AND it sounds very good.

Would you be able to emulate a "dual" leslie configuration ??

I would personally only be interested in the "home" solution, already have too many speakers ... and I don't do gigs

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:33 pm

I'm not sure I'm seeing the benefits of such a hybrid, a leslie is horns to begin with, but you'd have to use a stereo cab, a stereo power amp to push the cab....and then it would still be a simulation. So I'm not sure why one wouldn't just go with a hardware rotary speaker effect to accomplish the same thing? However if someone didn't already have the cab and amp then why not just go with something from motion sound?

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:04 pm

The idea would be a single box. It has amplification and everything inside.
The difference from a real Leslie would be a different way to send the sound around: virtual rotation.
No moving contacts, no motor, no vintage expensive parts... and the different speakers configuration shoul give possibility for experimenting...
I understand that a demo is needed for this...

asseca · Post by **asseca** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:38 pm

Some questions:
Would the "stage box" be smaller and lighter than a real leslie ?
Are you taking into consideration the doppler effect of the bass rotor and horn rotor ?
Will Bass and Horn rotors have different adjustable acceleration / deceleration ?
Are you going to use a tube amplifier or a tube amp simulator ?

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:05 pm

asseca wrote:Some questions:
Would the "stage box" be smaller and lighter than a real leslie ?
Are you taking into consideration the doppler effect of the bass rotor and horn rotor ?
Will Bass and Horn rotors have different adjustable acceleration / deceleration ?
Are you going to use a tube amplifier or a tube amp simulator ?

- Smaller and lighter (I guess...)
- The sound "rotates". Doppler effect should be there, this is to be tested. I'll do it in a few days simulating the box with four single loudspeakers. Any idea about how to show the result in a mp3? Should a stereo mic recording be good to show the results?
- Yes, independent rotation, velocity, control for bass and high freqs
- Tube preamp, solid state amp. This should be the best for quality/cost

Funkybot · Post by **Funkybot** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:10 pm

quintosardo wrote: - Smaller and lighter (I guess...)
- The sound "rotates". Doppler effect should be there, this is to be tested. I'll do it in a few days simulating the box with four single loudspeakers. Any idea about how to show the result in a mp3? Should a stereo mic recording be good to show the results?
- Yes, independent rotation, velocity, control for bass and high freqs
- Tube preamp, solid state amp. This should be the best for quality/cost

As the sound is simply panning, I doubt you're going to get a decent dopler effect. Listen to the 5.1 version of the Flaming Lips "Do You Realize" where the sound is panning in a full circle around the listener. It's a disorienting effect, but there is no audible pitch manipulation (i.e. dopler effect).

quintosardo · Post by **quintosardo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:13 pm

This is _not_ a full circle around the listener!
Of course that one cannot work

This is a full circle around from a single point... imagine four loudspeakers in a single point looking 90° apart one from each other

pj geerlings · Post by **pj geerlings** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:21 pm

quintosardo wrote:This is _not_ a full circle around the listener!
Of course that one cannot work

This is a full circle around from a single point... imagine four loudspeakers in a single point looking 90° apart one from each other

FWIW, and as mentioned above, the Doppler effect is a result of a sound source actually moving - panning or tremelo will not provide any frequency shift. By having four speakers in the configuration you mention you will get a potentially wonderful "spread" of sound that may be very interesting on it's own.

good luck!

-pj

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:29 pm

Most of the Leslie sound comes from the ever changing shape of the inside of the cabinet and, as mentioned already, the doppler effect.

Holographically speaking, 2 speakers should be enough to reproduce any kind of spatial immersion, at least from one fixed point in the listening room. And especially for a "2D" spatialization which is substantially what you'd get from a Leslie.

We only got two ears.

geekboy · Post by **geekboy** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:50 pm

This sounds like a neat idea.

Would the home version need 4 speakers? I'm sure a lot more people have 2 speakers systems.

Also, would you sell the hardware for the stage version?

Would you use this _real_ Leslie? AUDIO DEMO