CSR - pants down

[brok landers]

Hehe but it was meant to be modulated and artifficial

ahh, ok .. sorry, did not know that ...

[living sounds]

yeah, brok, please post the settings!

Hey Brok,

Is your 224 sample an XL? If so, which version of software and what preset are you using? Just curious...

- Rick

[brok landers]

you like the example of the 224 better than the aar? i do, too, but just out of curiousity, to learn more about different opinions:
could you describe the difference as you see it?
what makes the 224 example better than the aar example?
btw, will post the preset as soon as i am back in the studio ... i promise ...

for better direct comparsion, here are the 2 files again:
long reverb
long reverb 02

[living sounds]

Great!

The 224 sounds clearer but even warmer, it's denser and richer, the envelope is obviously different, the initial response (= ER) envelopes the dry signal better, the reverb 'moves around' a little more, but in a very organic way. Highly subjective as this may sound, it's quite obvious to me.
Still, the AA works very well on the signal.


Now I'd like to hear transient heavy drums through a well matched small studio like room (eg. Lexicon's 'Studio A' preset) on the AA, that's where - in my opinion - it's clearly beaten by hardware.

you like the example of the 224 better than the aar? i do, too, but just out of curiousity, to learn more about different opinions:
could you describe the difference as you see it?
what makes the 224 example better than the aar example?
btw, will post the preset as soon as i am back in the studio ... i promise ...

[EJo]

(removed)

[kmonkey]

Huh...more and more time with AA i can get more and more sound close to Lexicon 960 plate impulses on noisevault

Can someone put some drum loop through any HW lexi plate ? So we can try to get it best we can

[EJo]

(removed)

[Kingston]

Huh...more and more time with AA i can get more and more sound close to Lexicon 960 plate impulses on noisevault

Thing is, even though those free lexi l960 impulses are just about the best there are, they aren't really that great compared to, say CSR.

During the initial testing of CSR I wanted to compare those exact impulses to CSR, if they were any good. Only a select few could match the contender.

They are grainy somehow. Not good.

[kmonkey]

Wow. Is CSR Plate that good? I am lookin to buy it just because of Plate algo...Can you put some drum loop in CSR plate with small, med. and heavy wet mix?

[Kingston]

Wow. Is CSR Plate that good? I am lookin to buy it just because of Plate algo...Can you put some drum loop in CSR plate with small, med. and heavy wet mix?

Nono! Not just the plate but the general quality of all the algorithms. They really are that good. There's no doubt that everyone here would notice a difference like that. Unfortunately, my CSR demo has ran out. Have to wait till I can afford the bugger.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[el-folie]

you like the example of the 224 better than the aar? i do, too, but just out of curiousity, to learn more about different opinions:
could you describe the difference as you see it?
what makes the 224 example better than the aar example?
btw, will post the preset as soon as i am back in the studio ... i promise ...

Well, to my ears, the 224 example has a wider, even more open space, more highs, the lush decay of the chords is longer, vanishes differently in space, somehow nicer than AAR. Also even though the chord decays are layering in the reverb tail they can be heard through better, more substantial, maybe a matter of resolution? Also there's more movement in the reverb tail whereas I wouldn't say that makes it better but just different.

What do you say about matching that sound with the AAR? Or is it just another example of AAR? Just curious...

[rickschwar]

Thing is, even though those free lexi l960 impulses are just about the best there are, they aren't really that great compared to, say CSR.

First off the 960 impulses don't sound ANYTHING like a real Lexicon because of the way a Lexicon responds to dynamics and the way it modulates pitch. Second, most engineers don't think the Lexicon 960 sounds near as good as the 480L or the 224XL.

The vintage Lexicon's also have control parameters like LF Stop Decay and Mid Stop Decay that are essential to getting the sounds we're so used to hearing on most CDs. This parameter sets the decay in the absence of an input differently than the normal decay and can be used to enable a musical phrase to be cleanly articulated with a nice long echo tail at the end of a phrase -- without the reverb swamping out the busy parts. The same parameter can be set inversely so the reverb is lush during the phrase, yet it goes away when the performer stops playing or singing -- giving the illusion that there is little or no reverb on the track. These are just a few parameters that most software-based reverbs are missing. Here is the full list: Attack, Chorus (not to be confused with the traditional chorus effect -- this is a reverb parameter that makes reverb sound more musical and less metallic by randomizing delay times of the reverb taps), Crossover, Decay Optimization, Definition, Depth, Diffusion, Dynamic Decay, Fine Predelay, Gate, HF bandwith, LF Decay, LF Stop decay, Mid decay, MID stop decay, Mode Enhancement, Predelay, Preecho delay, Preecho level, Size, Slope, Trebal Decay, Band Delay, Band Level, Crossfeed, Feedback, HF Cutoff, LF Cutoff, Note Level, Note Pitch, Note Predelay, Pan, Resonance, Voice Delay, Voice Level. Some of these are chorus effect parameters, but they are included because you can create splits that consist of a chorused plate that can be useful for certain applications.

How many of these are missing from CSR or AAR? I realize we're talking about a HUGE difference in price, but there's a reason why these still sell for $2500-$6500 and are VERY hard to find.

- Rick

[Kingston]

First off the 960 impulses don't sound ANYTHING like a real Lexicon because of the way a Lexicon responds to dynamics and the way it modulates pitch.

Nobody ever said they did. I simply used them as an example, for a free reference.

Second, most engineers don't think the Lexicon 960 sounds near as good as the 480L or the 224XL.

That's a bit of a scretch, and sounds like your personal opinion to me. Who is "most"? The way I see it, L960 has 15years of more Lexicon r'n'd behind it, and knowing the sound somewhat, it's a whole different class. Soundwise the vintage ones aren't really even comparable to L960. It's a whole another level of ambience density. And yes, you can actually dive just as deep in L960 as the vintage ones, but you'll practically never bump into any kind of artifacts, like the "ultragrain" shimmer (can be a bad thing) of L480.





Speaking of which, CSR has most of those parameters, apart from chorus and the mid parametrisation. Remember, it's (very very near) Lexicon PCM90, so you can treat it as such.

[brok landers]

yes, l480 and the 960 are just totally different, with completely different approaches. but both are just unbelievable reverbs, each for it's own task...
but, guys, please compare the 2 files i put out for comparsion and tell me your opinion about the difference in quality ... i'd like to get a bit more different opinions on this ...