CSR - pants down

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Effects Discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

brok landers wrote:long reverb
long reverb 02
Here's my take brok.

The first one sounds a whole lot like CSR at its best. similarly smooth and full imaging, also the tail modulation sounds similar. Very lush and dense sound.

The second one still has better "ringing" with the chords, but the tail modulation, and initial reflections aren't as lively. There's a clear lack of density compared to the first example, which can be best heard as lack of image depth and width.


With all that in mind, I can't pick a clear favourite, as they both have their merits. Only a full mix could tell. I'd be inclined to guess the first example would work better because of better density and depth. The second example would probably smear the mix in a subtly worse way.

Post

rickschwar, which Lexicon units do you consider vintage? There is definetely no chorus parameter in the 480l (only a chorus effect, which has nothing to do with reverb) and none in the 300. Same goes for a "stop decay" parameter. Check the manual at lexiconpro.com. It might be in the 224 though - brok?

Post

brok landers wrote:works!! ;)
sounds not too bad, a bit static?
what is it?
the response is good, it just should be a bit more dense, and if you could get rid of the static ... somehow .. imo, that being said of course ...
Yeah, now that a day has passed, I can actually hear it doesn't sound as good as I thought yesterday :)
I still can't believe how great the AAR one sounds. It's actually Sonar's Sonitus:fx Reverb. That's most "high end" reverb I have.
EJo wrote:I really like this one! What is it? It doesn't sound "roomy". I like when it sounds "outside". I don't really evaluate a reverb on it's own (i mean on a single instrument), i usually listen to what it does to the mix before i know if i like it. A roomy sound can totally ruin the sound for me sometimes, although it can be great at other times. Of course i wouldn't use the same reverb on everything. If i had to pick only one reverb unit i don't know what i would pick... It's like when we played a game in college and one girl had to say which guy from the class she'd want to take with her to a deserted island. She protested "What, i can bring only ONE???"
Glad you liked it. It's Sonar's Sonitus:fx Reverb. It think it worked out great, but man do I love the AAR sample :)

Post

(removed)
Last edited by EJo on Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post

AAR is a good sounding reverb.

But for me its not professional enough compared to CSR as it cannot reverb short impulses like drums satisfing...

can someone please run these WAV File through the different CSR algos ( inverse, hall, room and ambience )
http://home.arcor.de/rd50info_site/soun ... eckout.wav

I would be really interested........


thx
Image

Post

Second, most engineers don't think the Lexicon 960 sounds near as good as the 480L or the 224XL.

That's a bit of a scretch, and sounds like your personal opinion to me. Who is "most"? The way I see it, L960 has 15years of more Lexicon r'n'd behind it, and knowing the sound somewhat, it's a whole different class. Soundwise the vintage ones aren't really even comparable to L960. It's a whole another level of ambience density. And yes, you can actually dive just as deep in L960 as the vintage ones, but you'll practically never bump into any kind of artifacts, like the "ultragrain" shimmer (can be a bad thing) of L480.
Yes it is obviously MY opinion -- but it's also the opinion of many professional engineers. If you don't believe me talk to anyone at a world class studio. Most of them own all of the popular Lexicon reverbs.

Or you can go to the forums where pro engineers frequent like Gearsluts and query 224, 480, 960 or "best reverb" and you'll get pages of threads and you'll see that MOST say what I've just said. Newer is not always better and the 960 is a great example of this.

I'm not trying to talk anyone into buying a Lexicon. Most people would be well served by either CSR or AAR, but if we're talking about the best reverb -- hardware-based units like the 224XL are hard to beat.

- Rick

Post

rickschwar, which Lexicon units do you consider vintage? There is definetely no chorus parameter in the 480l (only a chorus effect, which has nothing to do with reverb) and none in the 300. Same goes for a "stop decay" parameter.
When I say vintage, I mean 224XL and yes you are correct that some of the newer reverbs don't have chorus or the stop decay parameters. That is why the 224XL sounds so lush and so different than anything else.

The convertors are another reason however. That's one of the reasons the 480L sounds different even when it's running the Classic Card algorithms.

- Rick

Post


Post

rickschwar, the 224 example (long reverb 02) i posted, would you say that this is the classical representation of that unit? just curious, because thats what _i_ dailed out of it ...
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man

Post

rickschwar, the 224 example (long reverb 02) i posted, would you say that this is the classical representation of that unit? just curious, because thats what _i_ dailed out of it ...
Although I don't mean this to sound negative... I think the 224XL is capable of sounding better than your sample. That is not to say that your sample sounds bad -- it doesn't. But, as you know there are many parameters that can affect it's sound. What version of software are you using?

- Rick

Post

rickschwar, it seems you are the only one who is not fooled by placebo fx ... ;)
sorry all, i just couldn't resist ...
also my second contribution that i declared to be the 224 was just the artsacoustic reverb ...
please, guys, don't hate me ... i did this only to show, that you just have to use your ears ... if it sounds good it is good ...
the funny thing is, that most of the listeners instantly believed that it is not only the 224, but also sounding way more "pro" or hardware-like ...
that clearly shows to a certain degree, what one is implying by gui, name branding and such ...
even users of the 224 were fooled ... that shows how near some of the software reverbs are to hardware ...
but it showed also another thing:
it's not about emulating a certain hardware in this case, just the quality of some reverbs is just equal, exept to the 7-10thousand dollar units ..
and even with these, sometimes you cannot come close to the software reverbs ...
to me it seems to be more about general approaches, based on these there are strength and weakness, not about hardware vs. software ...
thanks to all again for their effort, time and insights, this was since a long time a very constructive thread here on kvr ... !!
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man

Post

:-) Again! However, I stick to what I said about the second clip, it sounds much better. And it's got that typical 224 stereo 'swirling'. What about the REAL 224 now (and the AA preset, I guess)?

brok landers wrote:rickschwar, it seems you are the only one who is not fooled by placebo fx ... ;)
sorry all, i just couldn't resist ...
also my second contribution that i declared to be the 224 was just the artsacoustic reverb ...
please, guys, don't hate me ... i did this only to show, that you just have to use your ears ... if it sounds good it is good ...
the funny thing is, that most of the listeners instantly believed that it is not only the 224, but also sounding way more "pro" or hardware-like ...
that clearly shows to a certain degree, what one is implying by gui, name branding and such ...
even users of the 224 were fooled ... that shows how near some of the software reverbs are to hardware ...
but it showed also another thing:
it's not about emulating a certain hardware in this case, just the quality of some reverbs is just equal, exept to the 7-10thousand dollar units ..
and even with these, sometimes you cannot come close to the software reverbs ...
to me it seems to be more about general approaches, based on these there are strength and weakness, not about hardware vs. software ...
thanks to all again for their effort, time and insights, this was since a long time a very constructive thread here on kvr ... !!

Post

living sounds wrote::-) Again! However, I stick to what I said about the second clip, it sounds much better. And it's got that typical 224 stereo 'swirling'. What about the REAL 224 now (and the AA preset, I guess)?
i'll not be in the studio today, so i cannot post the preset ... will do here asap ... as for the real 224 here, it is in use right now, so i can't just take it away in the next time ... but i definately will take it over here to my controlroom asap to do some checking ... again ...
and, yes ... what you said:
i also like the second file (long reverb 2) even better a bit than the initial file ...
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man

Post

:lol: :lol: :lol:

GREAT, Brok!!!

Glad, that I didn't post a comment - maybe you'd have fooled me, too, as I don't know the 224 that well...

Never mind, I think it sounds very different to your 1st sample, showing how flexible the AAR can be. I prefer the first one, btw, I find it gives a kind own character to the dry sample. Very subjective, though.

Maybe you should do a classic studio reverb soundbank for AAR? Just kidding :P

Post

(removed)
Last edited by EJo on Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Return to “Effects”