CSR - pants down

[brok landers]

rickschwar, it seems you are the only one who is not fooled by placebo fx ...
sorry all, i just couldn't resist ...
also my second contribution that i declared to be the 224 was just the artsacoustic reverb ...

It's nice to be vindicated. That's why I kept on asking you what version software you were running in your 224. Because it didn't sound like my 224XL which is running v8.2 software.

This is a great thread BTW...

- Rick

hey, as i wrote in a post earlier, i cannot get a hand on the 224 right now, it is in use in another controlroom in our studio, they're making an album with it ...
as soon as they can afford it i will ship that monster into my control room and do some comparsion files ...

[pdxindy]

I would like to see some drum examples from different reverbs as well. I liked the AAR original long file quite a bit. I would like to see what AAR can do with drums in capable hands. Even if it is not the 'best', but can it do a decent job? What reasonable priced non dongle reverb is better suited then?

it's great on drums, too, but for drums i think that there are alternatives, so don't set your expectations too high ...
allthough ... aar surprises me a lot everytime, why not this time, too ...
let's see ... the examples of bmanic using the csr sounded really good, though ...
i'll give it a try tomorrow ...

I do not know enough about reverb for drums to even know if my expectations are low or high or what other people look for or consider important. I purchased the AAReverb few months back and I am glad I did. Besides other uses, I use it on percussive tracks to give a sense of presence and I like the character it adds. When I tweak it to a particular percussive sound it makes it much more alive without it being sloppy or reverby sounding.

I don't know if I would like something else much more. SO thanks for starting this thread and I would love to see some drum/percussion track with and without AAR and CSR and any other highend or lowend reverb people want to add. As some people say the real quality of the reverb is seen here, I would like to understand this.

[brok landers]

I would love to see some drum/percussion track with and without AAR and CSR and any other highend or lowend reverb people want to add. As some people say the real quality of the reverb is seen here, I would like to understand this.

sorry, but IMO that's a rumor.
i said it before and i say it again:
there are great reverb units for drums, that fail miserably on other material, and there are marvelous reverb units for singnals that need an obvious, pleasing but unrealistic reverb, that fail on drums or realistic rooms.
it's very rare that one unit handles this with absolute perfection and then it costs way out of range ... like i said in earlier posts:
a friend of mine has 2 l960 and he says that they're stunning on one task, and don't really work on other tasks ...
it really depends on what you want to achieve, therefor one has to decide whcih reverb unit is best for that specific use ...
on top of that, there is different tastes.
there are a lot of users that actually don't wanna hear/use reverb because tey simply don't like that effect. they use reverb because they need to, for transparency in the mix, real room-needs etc. ...
then there's the other side, they love reverb as an audible, integral part of the whole music.
all these diffrent approaches (and many more) make the people love an reverb where others simply don't like it and vice versa ...
it's about the task, therefore to choose ...
good for those who have money ...

[pdxindy]

I do not wish to own so many thousands of dollars of equipment to buy many reverbs. I have reduced down to 4 synths and at the moment 1 reverb (AAR) plus other effects. More and more I want few tools that are solid and I learn well. I like simplicity. I would get another software reverb if I felt it worth it as a good compliment. I do not mind spendng the money as much as the added burden of learning more things and added complexity which for inteferes with the basic creative flow.

I'm happy with AAR in every circumstance I use it, but like you said, if something is better, good to know about it. Yourself and others on this thread are much more knowlegeable and experienced with reverbs than I am so I look forward to some drum examples to better understand the strengths and weaknesses of different reverbs in different circumstances.

[LiteOn]

Some quick shots from me.

The files are hosted by Brok - thank you very much, all your input to this thread is really appreciated.

http://www.bigtone.de/files/LiteOn_LongReverb-01.mp3

http://www.bigtone.de/files/LiteOn_LongReverb-03.mp3

http://www.bigtone.de/files/LiteOn_LongReverb-05.mp3


Again, thanks to Brok for bringing up this wonderful thread. Hmmmm, I wonder how this sequence would sound when run through a 480, 960, 600, yardstick or the Airbus 380 assembly dome....

I'm off to bed now, keep it going.


cheers,
LiteOn

[martian]

ive had another go with AA, and i think im getting some pretty pleasing results on drums now, just have to slightly let go of what i was trying to achieve and see what it can do in its own right.

previously i used to feel with rt60 times of more than 1.5s (halls bascially) AA was a bit overpowering, dense and 'gluey' for me (great in isolation though), since i like lighter/fresh/open sound in busy mixes, but with lower settings i think im getting there. although i still feel it has 'this sound' i cant completely control.

gotta say though, AAs interface is one of my favs.

[brok landers]

ok, i found an unreleased track which i did once a while ago ... nothing fancy, just a little ambient piece, one approach where i used _only_ the aar ...
never really finished it ...
the track is entirely produced in logic 5.5.1 pc, no hardware ... well, my rme card ...
it's a bit long (about 10 min or so), has a long intro, but you might want to check it out ...

drowning images

[hifiboom]

AAR is a good sounding reverb.

But for me its not professional enough compared to CSR as it cannot reverb short impulses like drums satisfing...

can someone please run these WAV File through the different CSR algos ( inverse, hall, room and ambience )
http://home.arcor.de/rd50info_site/soun ... eckout.wav

I would be really interested........

thx

I don't have CSR, but I quickly ran it through my emulation (RoomWorks/Ambience + Chorus) of Brok's reverb:

http://www.huelsbeck.com/sounds/reverb_ ... ample1.mp3

It's a bit too wet for this material, but the reverb sounds quite dense and nice...

Now it would be interesting to hear the stuff through Brok's AAR with the same settings, as well as other reverbs...

thanks chris for doing this!

I really like to hear some dense CSR examples on these drum sounds....

Roomworks sound dense....but it also sounds much too large to be realistic....
A complete mix will just get too muddy..... ( but maybe good for ambient )

Think of the snare and vocal on Phil Collins "In the Air tonight"
or the claps on "Sussudio", just that 80s gate / inverse reverb....

If I reverb a snare, I just don't want too hear a reverb at every frequenciy range, but just at the snare frequency ( mid range )
Same for kicks....the reverb should add that FX of being large and giving pressure but without mudding the mix....

I love kicks with reverb....
But none of the vst plug-ins can do the trick.
I am sure CSR can do without too long tails.... (of course some hardware can do the trick too)

AAR also sounds quite "big".

CSR seems to be more dense and frequency responding....

Thats what I miss....

PS: You are German, right? I don't know exactly, but I think I know you from somewhere. ? Maybe an interview in KEYS magazine?

[Debutante]

OK...so, what this thread has managed to do is harshly marginalize the confidence I had in my very small collection of free reverb plugins. I've pitted some against the first batch of samples in the thread and haven't been able to even feebly recreate the sound (Freeverb Too came the "closest"), or conjure up a response as sweet and endearing as I heard in the long verb demo. That said, I haven't tried SIR yet, and it's my last hope. This is NOT a bash at freebies, but a first time acknowledgement of the fantastic quality that money will sometimes get you. Freebies sound quite excellent in their own right. But the warmth of this verb without the hissy fits at the ends....

As a noob, the only other commercial verb I heard that piqued my interest immediately was the R66, and now revisited I see the price has dropped dramatically since it was first introduced. It is though, it seems, from a somewhat different school when compared to the CSR... but soundwise, how would you guys say they measure up?

[living sounds]

R66 has nothing to do with the Lexicon sound (though they claim it). It sounds artificial, doesn't blend well at all with the dry signal and is incapable of doing smaller rooms. It might do well in certain situations though...

[c_huelsbeck]

OK...so, what this thread has managed to do is harshly marginalize the confidence I had in my very small collection of free reverb plugins. I've pitted some against the first batch of samples in the thread and haven't been able to even feebly recreate the sound (Freeverb Too came the "closest"), or conjure up a response as sweet and endearing as I heard in the long verb demo. That said, I haven't tried SIR yet, and it's my last hope. This is NOT a bash at freebies, but a first time acknowledgement of the fantastic quality that money will sometimes get you. Freebies sound quite excellent in their own right. But the warmth of this verb without the hissy fits at the ends....

As a noob, the only other commercial verb I heard that piqued my interest immediately was the R66, and now revisited I see the price has dropped dramatically since it was first introduced. It is though, it seems, from a somewhat different school when compared to the CSR... but soundwise, how would you guys say they measure up?

Well, I still think I came very close with RoomWorks + Kjaerhus Chorus... both free if you have Cubase SX2+ or as some have pointed out Ambience, which is basically the same as RoomWorks and free for any host.

[c_huelsbeck]

thanks chris for doing this!

I really like to hear some dense CSR examples on these drum sounds....

Roomworks sound dense....but it also sounds much too large to be realistic....
A complete mix will just get too muddy..... ( but maybe good for ambient )

Think of the snare and vocal on Phil Collins "In the Air tonight"
or the claps on "Sussudio", just that 80s gate / inverse reverb....

If I reverb a snare, I just don't want too hear a reverb at every frequenciy range, but just at the snare frequency ( mid range )
Same for kicks....the reverb should add that FX of being large and giving pressure but without mudding the mix....

I love kicks with reverb....
But none of the vst plug-ins can do the trick.
I am sure CSR can do without too long tails.... (of course some hardware can do the trick too)

AAR also sounds quite "big".

CSR seems to be more dense and frequency responding....

Thats what I miss....

PS: You are German, right? I don't know exactly, but I think I know you from somewhere. ? Maybe an interview in KEYS magazine?

As I said, it was not the right reverb for this material, but I'm sure it could be shaped into something useful by tweaking all the parameters...

Yes, I'm German, currently living in the US. You might remember my name from the early days of Computer & Video games, specifically C64 and Amiga Computer era...

[kmonkey]

Ghost'n Goblins

[c_huelsbeck]

Here is a test with SIR... alone it was too clean and bland, as expected with plain convolution. However, I again followed it by the classic chorus and voila, sounds not too shabby either!

http://www.huelsbeck.com/sounds/sir_test1.mp3

[c_huelsbeck]

More SIR, Quantec Yardstick Taj Mahal Impulse (one of my favourites), different settings, this time those drum and other samples:

http://www.huelsbeck.com/sounds/reverb_ ... e2_sir.mp3