KVR Audio

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:29 pm

Hi!
The best of ( actual )possible worlds: use a straight polysynth ( careful with the filters

) then pass the sound through UAD-1's DimensionD plug-in!

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:05 pm

Boulotaur2024 wrote:and you can hear the Cs-80 routed to the vp-330 and oh my god this sawtooth is unbelievably textured, and... I lack vocabulary to precisely describe its beauty

everybody lacks of the describibg of it ...
and actually it's not the cs80 routed to the vp330 ...
it's mostly the sound of vp330 itself, it's a stringmachine/choir-emu-machine ...
the stringmachine sounds just that great because they implemented that kind-of-chorus-isch polyphone modulation, that the arp solina and so many other stringmachines had buildt in these days ...
that sound is used as an input when using the vp330 vocoder ...
btw, for the one who don't know, the vp330 is actually also the strings and pads in antarctica/bladerunner/chariots of fire etc ...
vangelis used this machine allmost everytime when it comes to these lush stringpads ...
he did not use _allways_ the vp330, but in his early recordings (up to 1986 or so) he used it very often, or used another stringmachine, which have all in common this lush "chorus" effect ...
he also used the rs202 or the solina or crumar multiman instead ...
but this rich choir emulation, buildt of an extra filterbank with the chorussed string as inputsignal (i don't mean the vocoder) of the vp330 was never even reached by any other instrument ...
i absolutely love these stringmachine sounds ...

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:34 pm

everybody lacks of the describibg of it ...
and actually it's not the cs80 routed to the vp330 ...
it's mostly the sound of vp330 itself, it's a stringmachine/choir-emu-machine ...
the stringmachine sounds just that great because they implemented that kind-of-chorus-isch polyphone modulation, that the arp solina and so many other stringmachines had buildt in these days ...
that sound is used as an input when using the vp330 vocoder ...
btw, for the one who don't know, the vp330 is actually also the strings and pads in antarctica/bladerunner/chariots of fire etc ...
vangelis used this machine allmost everytime when it comes to these lush stringpads ...
he did not use _allways_ the vp330, but in his early recordings (up to 1986 or so) he used it very often, or used another stringmachine, which have all in common this lush "chorus" effect ...
he also used the rs202 or the solina or crumar multiman instead ...
but this rich choir emulation, buildt of an extra filterbank with the chorussed string as inputsignal (i don't mean the vocoder) of the vp330 was never even reached by any other instrument ...
i absolutely love these stringmachine sounds ...

Correct!
Basically, though , there is a difference between the VP330 ( or RS505 string machine )and some other famous string machines like the Solina: the VP uses the same circuitry as the DimensionD while the Solina uses a Triple chorus circuitry. The VP chorus widens the sound because of two channels going counterphase.
And Vangelis, yes, he used the VP string machine from 1980 to 1986 with a remarkable regularity, only in the very last days of Nemo, when recording the "Cosmos Special Editions", or some overdubs for "Rhapsodies" or during his work with J.L.Webber he used a JX8-P :I know that sound very good and I can recognize it everywhere!!
By the way for a modern use of the VP330 look over to Air, Royksopp, Testrauschen, they're stil making a good use of the oldie

!

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:39 pm

If you want to hear some non-voice passed through the VP vocoder try Royksopp's "What else is there?": the snare is filtered by the vocoder and they added that fantastic human voice pad...for the rest the VP ( and a CS80 ) is spread all over their last album!

vista · Post by **vista** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:05 pm

FruityLoops VOCODER
[FREE ComputerMusic-Edition]

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:42 pm

omissis wrote:Basically, though , there is a difference between the VP330 ( or RS505 string machine )and some other famous string machines like the Solina:

ah yes, the rs505 ... remember it ...

but i meant the rs202 ...
thats one of my favourite stringmachines, along with the vp330 and the crumar multiman ...

omissis wrote:the VP uses the same circuitry as the DimensionD while the Solina uses a Triple chorus circuitry. The VP chorus widens the sound because of two channels going counterphase.

interresting, didn't know that ...
but what it makes it so usable is, that the chorus is polyphon, so you don't have phase problems when grabbing octaves ...
do you know where i can maybe get a vp330?

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:06 pm

Well, if I could know it I would have taken it for myself

!

Boulotaur2024 · Post by **Boulotaur2024** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:32 pm

Ok, another thread bump, but useful I hope, this time I've extracted a few seconds of the first track of Vangelis' Mask (very moving piece btw...)

This is *exactly* the sound I'm looking for and yes, it is the great Roland vp-330 at work (omissis, you confirm ?) :

http://s146380088.onlinehome.fr/Muzik/V ... xtract.mp3 (160 Kbps - 1.88 Mo - 98'')

Spyro · Post by **Spyro** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:47 pm

That shouldn't be hard to recreate with any other synth. Maybe is a mix between various waveforms, I think I hear saw and square (or rounded square) mixed very carefully, but definitely the trick is on the LP fiter and Volume envelope, and a somewhat fast yet small expressive vibrato.

I think he's using some kind of volume controller, probably a pedal to make those slow crescendos from niente which sounds uber cool.

That and some sort of stereo imaging tool to make it more deep, maybe each note or chord range has a different panning.

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:53 pm

Bouloutaur...
Apart from the chorus ( which you SHOULD consider, as it's integral part-it does create the vibrato too!!- and non switchable option into the VP330 ) you should:

1 . for the low register: saw + square @ 70-75%PW
2.for the high register: only saw

-filter: if you can manage a HPF feeding a LPF ( like on the CS80 )use them with no resonance and raise the HPF to cut some low-end off.

-choose one single LFO with sine for the vibrato for all the voices, set it no more than 10% amount with speed no more than 5 Hz.

Find a stereo chorus, and if you can use UAD-1 DimensionD plug-in as it is the source for the VP330 chorus.
I think I can't help you more with conventional synths.Let me know!

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:59 pm

I was forgetting about envelopes: the VP330 had ONE envelope for all the voices though it was full polyphonic ( aaahhh...sweet old organ technology ), that's why Vangelis took only chords and eventually drowned the VP under a ton of reverb...anyway, set Attack at no more than 0.5 seconds,release at your likes.

BTW: I'm more and more in love with CS80 strings presets, the VP sounds like a fart compared to them...listen to "China" for comparison

ZooTooK · Post by **ZooTooK** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:49 pm

omissis wrote:the VP uses the same circuitry as the DimensionD while the Solina uses a Triple chorus circuitry. The VP chorus widens the sound because of two channels going counterphase.

I've read that Dimension D didn't have the traditional chorus LFO changing the delay time. Instead it widens the stereo image more staticly. To me it makes sense - I'd be surprised to find Dimension D to be a stereo chorus with 4 presets only... but that is only me guessing....

I've studied the circuit diagram and the chorus/ensemble uses a LFO in VP-330 - and that's heard very clearly as the vibrato....

I suppose Reaktor would be a good environment to build an imitation in...

Boulotaur2024 · Post by **Boulotaur2024** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:59 pm

Ok, Omissis, I did my homework, so I launched the cs-80v and dialed a patch following as closely as possible your advice (fine-tuning it to make it 'usable' though), and the verdict is... it sucks ! I mean *I* suck at programming the beast !

No I won't post a soundclip, that would be the worst advertising for Arturia

Here is the patch anyway, all your remarks, tweaks and modifications are welcome of course ; )

I fed it through Kjaerhus Classic Chorus (I only have that chorus available right now, I'll check that DimensionD plugin when I have... money) and a touch of Ambience reverb plugin... Well to me, it sounds like crap, I mean that's not what I'm looking for, but I haven't tried that hard it's true.

Oh and by the way did I mention presets storing in cs-80v is the worst I've ever met ?

omissis · Post by **omissis** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:51 pm

Actually I've tried myself a similar patch into my soundbank that you can download on the Arturia site...it's not as good as I would too but , anyway, I gave it a try

ScarKord · Post by **ScarKord** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:39 pm

Roland make an add-on card for their VariOS and V-Synth's

http://www.roland.com/products/en/VC-2/index.html

It has an algorithm called Vocoder Vintage which I believe is modelled on the VP330

Looking for a Roland vp-330 vocoder emulation.