KVR Audio

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:03 pm

to *poof* and disappear from simply adding a plugin to ACID

I'm afraid it may be a 'better' crashing, because when a VSTi decides to crash while saving its state, it not only takes the app down, but also the project the user was saving.

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:23 pm

tony tony chopper wrote:
The VST wrapper in FLS has a bunch of flags/toggles
it indeed has lots of settings, because it's not me developping the wrapper, but Fred, and he does care about compatibility (and yes there are lots of confusing settings, but that's the tradeoff).
If it was my only choice, there wouldn't be any setting, and plugins that wouldn't work with FL.. would just not work at all. Afterall, if a plugin maker doesn't consider supporting every host, it's not a problem for him and not a problem for us, and as for the user, it's his decision to buy the plugin or not.

Right, and personally I appreciate Fred's kindness as well as your own strictness. I think the compromise he made is a good one as the wrapper itself lets us make uniform choices about it and doesn't force our choice on us. It maintains the integrity of the strict adherence but lets users over-ride that. Good things because unfortunately some of us (myself included) have purchased expensive plugins that we dont want to give up using inside of FL.

It has to affect sales though and the fingers wouldn't point to FL always /if/ a VST standards compliancy badge/initiative/validator existed.. Then the user would know to point the finger in the right direction (at the devloper of the plugs) and save you time/frustration in the process as well as lining your pockets with more money from more sales.

Does no unity exist among developers to create such a thing?

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:45 pm

tony tony chopper wrote:
to *poof* and disappear from simply adding a plugin to ACID
I'm afraid it may be a 'better' crashing, because when a VSTi decides to crash while saving its state, it not only takes the app down, but also the project the user was saving.

To prevent using a program because it has become instable due to a rogue plugin is one thing, but atleast give me a message box "x_plugin.dll has made program unstable. When you click OK program will close, sorry for the inconvenience". Atleast then we could know that the programmers are doing their best to protect us and give us a heads up as to WHAT is happening and WHY. *poof* and gone is no help to me at all and gives me quite a bit of paranoia about what other things are happening behind the scenes that are backfiring and screwing things up.

FL has never just *poof* gone away on me, and it also works with the plugins I am referring to better than ACID so, you must be doing something better than Sony, right?

birrbits · Post by **birrbits** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:00 pm

I want to take a moment to throw out props to Tobybear! I have never seen Minihost choke/crash/explode on a plug and I find Minihost the easiest way to demo a new vst.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:03 pm

grymmjack wrote:
bduffy wrote:
elephant stone wrote:
bduffy wrote: I don't know if the demo's different than the real version, but I found Tracktion took a disappointingly long time, every time, to scan and load up - even with the "quick scan" on. Am I missing something?
I have no experience with other host I could compare to (except Tobybear minihost and few attempts with cubase vst).
But I can tell you a complete scan takes no more than 5 minutes for me for a hundred of vsts, some of theme beeing "huge" (Proteus x, Korg Legacy collection...). Maybe depends of your computer ? Mine is a basic one (HP Pavilion AMD 3000 + 512 Mo).
Not the initial scan, which I expect to take awhile with any host, but each time I open Tracktion 2, it takes about as long as Cubase to open, which I'm a little disappointed with, as I've been thinking about switching to or at least incorporating another host. One that opens immediately, like Sonar, and doesn't have to have a long-winded scan every time. Because Tracktion is designed to be more immediate, with that all-in-one interface, I'm just a little surprised that it's so slow on loading. And at work, I can't get it to open, period; it crashes on the initial scan.
Yes it's what elephant said. Disable scanning on startup -- you don't need to do this with Tracktion since it gives you an option to 'rescan' when you want. The point of scanning on startup is a convenient feature but takes time to do it and with a rescan command it does the same damn thing anyway. That will have you sorted out. I start T2 in 5 seconds. Could never achieve this with Cubase

Sorry guys, I missed these responses, if I may drag us back to this part of the topic: I did uncheck that option and it seems to take awhile on the first open; reopening after that is pretty much immediate though.

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:20 pm

birrbits wrote:I want to take a moment to throw out props to Tobybear! I have never seen Minihost choke/crash/explode on a plug and I find Minihost the easiest way to demo a new vst.

+1 for Minihost - I use it constantly. However, it crashes on scan quite often for me to the point where after an hour of moving vst's out one at a time, I gave up and just drag/drop DLL's or use the recent menu. Loading, different story, it just sometimes refuses to load if it's not valid

So yea it's good for loading, but crappy scanning still and no ignore list/skip list.

I wish minihost had "Close and Re-open plugin" option -- would have saved my hands some pain and my watch some time. Instead I have to close the plug, then reopen it manually. Sucks for skinning tests (which is primary reason I bought it).

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:29 pm

bduffy: sounds normal-- you always have to do at least one major scan, which WILL take a while. When you say the "first open" do you mean the first open after upgrading (in which case, as I say, all is normal) or the first open each day?

In any event, I distrust hosts that instantly list the plug-ins, because all they've done is check plug-in ID and listed them. Wouldn't want it to miss a dodgy plug-in and then have a whole project crashing in on me. I'd rather the long initial scan.

Greg

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:34 pm

Lunch Money wrote:bduffy: sounds normal-- you always have to do at least one major scan, which WILL take a while. When you say the "first open" do you mean the first open after upgrading (in which case, as I say, all is normal) or the first open each day?

In any event, I distrust hosts that instantly list the plug-ins, because all they've done is check plug-in ID and listed them. Wouldn't want it to miss a dodgy plug-in and then have a whole project crashing in on me. I'd rather the long initial scan.

Greg

That time (and I should have been more clear) I meant the first "open of the day". Like, if I opened it right now, it would take roughly the same time as Cubase, but if I closed it an re-opened it, it would take a second. I might have missed something and I'd check my settings, but I can't get Tracktion past the initial, first major scan here at work.

deaf dunderkwac · Post by **deaf dunderkwac** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:58 pm

My favorite sequencer. MakingWaves Studio does do the things you seem to be missing. i.e it gives a warning message and refuses to load the offending effect/instrument.
If I wish to hear said VST anyway, I will try it in minihost or Audacity (if it will recognize the VST) to decide if I want to bother with contacting the developer of the plug or MakingWaves.
(I live in a perfect world, apparently)

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:46 pm

Tracktion will give the warning, too, and add the offending plug-in to the "ignore" list. However, some plug-ins crash the scan so badly that Tracktion doesn't get to that point, at which, T will STILL add the plug-in to the ignore list and tell you that you need to take it off the list and re-scan if you want to try again.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:50 pm

Lunch Money wrote:Tracktion will give the warning, too, and add the offending plug-in to the "ignore" list. However, some plug-ins crash the scan so badly that Tracktion doesn't get to that point, at which, T will STILL add the plug-in to the ignore list and tell you that you need to take it off the list and re-scan if you want to try again.

Well I wish it would do that for me! It just vanishes here at work.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:54 pm

Oh! Wouldn't you know it: I just tried it and it said it couldn't initialize the "mda-DX10" synth (of all things - isn't that bundled w/Tracktion?

)

But it looks like the Angular Momentum synths are crashing it, possibly.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:55 pm

It seems to me that there ARE some really bad crashes which just stupefy Tracktion, period. That's definitely unfortunate.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:00 pm

Actually, now it's catching each bad plug on the next startup; looks like getting to first base will require a very, very long process of scan, crash, scan, crash. Which is definitely not unique to Tracktion.

Funny, though: this kind of behaviour is something I'm thinking of ditching Cubase for...but I guess they're all like that, depends on the plugins. I like Sonar's loading time, though. That's what I really want...without Sonar...

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:04 pm

I'm sure it goes without saying, but having a streamlined list of VSTs as your "base" folder is handy. Include the ones you know you use all the time, which will likely mean they're also stable. Then add in others only as you need them. Not much point trying to scan, "SuperPizza Happy Fun Reverb 2.69" if you're never really going to use it.

Once your base plug-ins are scanned, the "add no more than a few at a time" principle is in effect, so that you can quickly track down the offenders.

Greg

What is the deal with DAWs and Sequencer's VST recognition?