KVR Audio

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:10 am

Hello there.

Well yeah, I'm looking for something "new" again. You know... if I listen to pop music from different places of the planet (Germany, UK, USA, Japan) I realise something: sharp sounding tracks where you can cut you fingers with it.

So yeah, I got the hang of "Exciters" and what they can do, and what not. But every time I master something, I still have some ammount of "mud" in my mixes. This doesn't mean that they're bad, but to me they are - and I want to change that.

I tried a lot of the more known stuff: Elogoxa X-Citer, Crysonic Spectralive 2, BBE Sonic Maximizer. Both with pre-EQ and past EQ. I don't want to overdrive them, but they don't give me the crisp either what I'm looking for in terms of stereo mixdowns.

So my call to you (especially the pro's):
What do you guys use?
DSP hardware (PowerCore, UAD-1) or certain plugins?
What can you recommend and what do you "not" recommend at all?
Any tips in terms of engineering? Should I really "overuse" the exciter? Is that a standard lately?

Even though the creator of Spectralive might try to kill me again (j/k), but after using this VST plugin for a while now, I can't get used to it. Either it's muddy to my ears, boosts stuff way too much (or kills what I carefully engineered) and it also has a weird panning issue (that I seem to can't get rid off) to the left.

I'm not necessarily looking for all in one solutions (though izotope Ozone was recommended me a couple of times now), but more like single/standalone solutions.

Anybody who can help me out of my misery is welcome to do so.
Thanks in advance

stash98 · Post by **stash98** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:32 am

that sounds like a mix issue. I mean exciters do kick ass, but if you are hearing mud, they won't fix that. I use Ozone 3. there are exciters in there that are good if your mix is balanced. I mean literally boosting past 1 can make shit sizzle way too much, so you have to be careful. try that program out first before you dive into hardware.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:38 am

Well the prob is, sometimes I just get stereo mixdowns. And my weapons can only be used on that "stream". Especially if I have to master for others. This is why I'm asking.

Usually I have the sound I'm looking for. But in 1:1 comparision with nowaday "pop music", my material is mud, and the pop music stuff is crisp. A bit hard to describe, but I hope you get the idea.

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:40 am

I am not a pro but I believe the "ultra crisp pro sound" does NOT come from "Exciters".
I comes from the source of the sound.
That means good mics, pre amps and DI's.
Of course the Exciters come into play at the mastering stage but without the superb source they are limited in what they can do.

feyshay · Post by **feyshay** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:49 am

AndrewSimon wrote:I am not a pro but I believe the "ultra crisp pro sound" does NOT come from "Exciters".
I comes from the source of the sound.
That means good mics, pre amps and DI's.
Of course the Exciters come into play at the mastering stage but without the superb source they are limited in what they can do.

Since we're talking about the digital realm, I'd add converters to mics and preamps.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:08 am

Well then let's get back to the main problem:

I have a decent produced track, and I need to brush it up. But even after my editings it's still not comparable to modern "pop" productions.

So what's the secret? I don't think that enginers have a pandoras box attached to their Wavelab while engineering. And if they only have a stereo source rather than the concrete channels, that's also a thing to consider.

If there're pro's among us (which i'm sure there're are), I'd really get to know their "secrets" and maybe even get the one or another hint of what to do and what not.

scam_artist · Post by **scam_artist** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:12 am

exciters stimulate the high end, so they won't reduce mud

mud is usually associated with the low mid range - around 200Hz to 800Hz roughly

If you reduce frequencies in this range, the low end and high end will start to sound more clear and punchy

scam_artist · Post by **scam_artist** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:14 am

go back to your mix, and look at the instruments sitting in the muddy range... perhaps you can roll the top and/or bottom off these instruments to clear up the muddy range. or reconsider your choice of instruments and their arrangement

once_twice · Post by **once_twice** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:25 am

You could try a frequency spectrum analyser to find out which sounds/tracks are sharing the same frequencies. Then get rid of the redundant frequencies.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:58 am

Yeah but those are issues that can be fixed if I have concrete channels (split channels). But if I get a stereo file, where everything is "rendered" already, I have to work with what I get.

Okay lowering the EQ range of about 3dB from 50Hz to 800Hz is a nice stab, but chances are that I mess up the punch of a kick, or the bass. All things I considered already.

But there has to be more about it. Else I wouldn't hear from so many "engineers" that they swear upon exciters giving their stuff the "pro-cut".

stash98 · Post by **stash98** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:14 am

ok..I work at a studio that puts out "pro" records for labels. its alll about the mix first off. If you want a crisp sounding master that is AS GOOD as a pop one, you need a mix that is bangin. No exciter will save that mix.

Once again, I reccomend trying out Ozone. It has an exciter option on it that you may like, but if the mix is not done coreectly, it will just sound trashy.

once_twice · Post by **once_twice** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:42 am

Then what do you mean by a good mix ?

scam_artist · Post by **scam_artist** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:02 am

Compyfox wrote: But there has to be more about it. Else I wouldn't hear from so many "engineers" that they swear upon exciters giving their stuff the "pro-cut".

yes, but the "pro cut" will only happen by using an exciter on a mix that is good to begin with. I say again, mud frequencies and frequencies that an exciter affects are completely different.

Yes, an exciter can make a mix sound great, but only if it's a good unmuddy mix to begin with

scam_artist · Post by **scam_artist** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:19 am

if you *have* to try to fix a single stereo file, the best you can hope to do is EQ out some of the mud, but you'll never be able to achieve a well produced sound - you'll only be able to get it sounding reasonably better

TrevorMag · Post by **TrevorMag** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:35 am

Here's a few things I'd consider trying:

a multiband dynamics processor that let's you do gating/expanding as well as compressing - use it to do some downward expansion on everything below 100Hz. "No bass except when I really mean it".
Scooping. A trick with a questionable reputation. Cut everything from 400-800. That's "where the notes are", and some arrangements just have too many of them.
an exciter - your choice of model & how much to use.

A few tricks that you can apply to selected tracks in a mix rather than the mix itself:

broadband noise reduction, but turn it up "too high". It can put a few sparkles of "false colour" into the sound
layer a whispered track over some of the vocal, so soft that you only notice it when the vocal is soloed. Further option - flange the whisper.
Take a copy of the drums, compress heavily with a speed setting that lets the attacks through, distort & boost the highs, mix back in subtly.

Looking for that "ultra crisp pro sound" - aka "Exciters"