Getting Rhythm Guitar Effects with Sampletank/VSTs

[spillway]

Hi, I somewhat new at using SampleTank and VSTs.

If I want to get rhythm guitar patterns using a sample what are your suggestions?

I have been using an arpeggiator to get it sounding more like strumming but was wondering if anyone had any tips.

Obviously it is best to use a real guitar but I was just wondering what is possible to achieve with VST.

Thanks.

[jeffn1]

Do you want acoustic or electric. Here are some ideas:

Acoustic: Try RealGuitar or Virtual Guitarist 2

Electric: Prominy LPC, Bela Media's Lyrical Distortion, ManyGuitar (I beleive)

jeffn1

[Squids]

We have Acoustic Guitar Capsule, Electric Guitar Capsule and Guitar Collection that work in SampleTank format and are available here: www.esoundz.com They are playable guitar instruments though so for strumming you would need to use a midi processor or arpeggiator, midi programming itself to get it just right or perfect your performance techniques to play it that way. That's difficult though. We may have some things in the upcoming Studiophonik plug-in (based on SampleTank) that are really good for rhythm guitar and additionally there may be some other things coming out from Sonic Reality that are geared specifically toward that as well.

That said, some of the other suggestions may suit your needs. Odd to see people suggesting competitor's products in a company forum as opposed to in a more general KVR forum like the instruments forum... but if it was helpful to you then that's a good. I was just taken back for a second when I read it.

[spillway]

Thanks for your help. I was trying to get rhythm guitar sounds in SampleTank. I guess I was barking up the right tree with the arpeggiator.

How will Studiophonik be different for rhythm guitar?

[jeffn1]

Hmmmm. Well, I suppose I just think of k-v-r as k-v-r without self censoring. I usually enter the forum via the latest topics (in all forums) page-

That is a good question though. Do people think you should desist from suggesting competitor's products in a developers forum? That type of restriction is something I do not like about Northern Sounds, but maybe that is appropriate. I don't know.

jeffn1

[Squids]

Hmmmm. Well, I suppose I just think of k-v-r as k-v-r without self censoring. I usually enter the forum via the latest topics (in all forums) page-

That is a good question though. Do people think you should desist from suggesting competitor's products in a developers forum? That type of restriction is something I do not like about Northern Sounds, but maybe that is appropriate. I don't know.

jeffn1

It depends where you are on KVR. KVR hosts OFFICIAL company forums. Once you are in a company's forum it is like being in their place. Even on the latest posts you can see where the topic is "in". (you can even customize it so it shows only certain things... perhaps general topics if that is what you prefer).

Don't get me wrong, I am all for people helping people out generally speaking but it should be done with consideration of where on KVR you are because it is a shared place with developers. It can be considered slightly rude or disrespectful to suggest a competiting company's products in a company's own official forum on KVR. I don't mean to say that's "breaking the rules" or anything (so it'd be different than Northern Sounds if that's the case there as you are saying). I think there should just be an understanding of what the context is... a sound developer's forum on KVR, not KVR in general. Posts and answers should ideally be placed in the proper section of KVR.

Anyway, this person was specifically asking about SampleTank which Sonic Reality supports that so I will get back to that. I hope my comments were understood and taken the right way. Just trying to keep this forum focused on Sonic Reality-related things... which of course is understandable! I hope anyway.

I will post separately answering spillway's question.

[Squids]

Thanks for your help. I was trying to get rhythm guitar sounds in SampleTank. I guess I was barking up the right tree with the arpeggiator.

How will Studiophonik be different for rhythm guitar?

The arpeggiator thing can be good at least for songwriting to get an idea across (maybe before you replace it with a real guitar). For really mimicking rhythm guitar strums it can be a little bit mechanical though. There are some other techniques that we'll be coming out with either in libraries or maybe in Studiophonik. We have a few guitars (even on our product Modern Songwriter it is done this way) where you have different chords with up and down strokes and you can alt back and forth to create strums. It is a little too early to discuss in detail with Studiophonik though. Maybe next month I can tell you how we've implemented (if we do... it is rather large sized is the problem... but we WILL release it in the Infinite Instrument series at least).

In the meantime, the guitar libraries I mentioned above for SampleTank are at least very good sources of guitar SOUNDS to work with. This is an interesting area to explore though and we should all discuss it, especially with regard to what midi plug-ins or tools there are to enhance performance of rhythm guitar playing with SampleTank and what people's experiences are getting it not to sound too fake or mechanical. Anyone have some good suggestions of arpeggiators or strummers in midi? Let's try to focus on ones that are accessories to something SR makes for ST or other formats... however, if there is something particular about a competing product that is nice (such as something about the way Virtual Guitarist works that you like... rather that just suggesting it- that would be good to know... especially with the idea that we may choose to have a feature like that for you guys at some point either as a script in Kontakt 2 or in a virtual instrument with IK or who knows?).

Thanks

[Wade Cornett]

Here is a different approach to rhythm guitar tracks. You can get some good acoustic tracks using an a Yamaha EZAG as a controller and the Sampletank Acoustic sample. Some of the lesser distorted samples work nicely with this controller.

Wade

[flugel45]

Here is a different approach to rhythm guitar tracks. You can get some good acoustic tracks using an a Yamaha EZAG as a controller and the Sampletank Acoustic sample. Some of the lesser distorted samples work nicely with this controller.

Wade

Wade,

Have you tried the Yamaha controller with Samp2's electric guitar samples? If so, what are your thoughts? (I'm speaking, of course, of rhythm type playing).

TIA,
JD

[Wade Cornett]

The controller itself is about $200.00. Since it does not have actual strings but sensers it does not feel like a guitar. And since it is a the feel differs from a real guitar, it takes some pratice with the instrument to get use to the feel. You cannot bend strings. But for strumming and good deal of non-complex rhythm work I find it useful. You can do some melody/simple lead work with it as well. Use the midi editor to inject feel and correct any timing issues. One of the greatest assets of this controller as apposed to a guitar is that if you don't like the guitar your using you change it out for another guitar sample. No re-recording. Probably about 2/3 of the SR/Sampletank guitar samples are usable. You need Midi OX and Midi Yoke because there is no midi merge for this controller, each of the strings go to a seperate channel. For a true guitarist this controller feels like a kids toy. I doubt a hard core guitarist would use it,yet I still find quite a few uses for the Yamaha EZAG and Sampletank. Do a search on the KVR forums to find out more.

[dgkenney]

That's really the nut of it all isn't it. Samples in general (and SR/esoundz Samples in particular of which I am a big fan) have really opened up the possibilites of being a one man band or at least one man songwriter/demo maker.

The "problem" is in making the samples sound like they were played by the original instrument. I suspect that most fairly adept musicians can tell when something was played by other means (e.g. a guitarist can usually tell if a keyboardist is playing a guitar sample as well as the other way around.) Not always of course but it is a challenge to get the phrasing and dynamics just right. It's really a fun puzzle to solve if you are a do-it-alone-er.

Not becuase it is any good, but here's a sample I did with SR sounds (mostly sampletank and guitar expansion) and only used a midi guitar. (except for drums) To my ears, the guitar sounds convincing, the synths, not so much.

http://www.dgkenneymusic.com/mp3share/d ... dalena.mp3
(hows that for shameless self-promotion


Dan

[Wade Cornett]

Dan,

That's very impressive. What are you using for a controller a Roland Midi Guitar setup?

Wade

[BERFAB]

Let's try to focus on ones that are accessories to something SR makes for ST or other formats... however, if there is something particular about a competing product that is nice (such as something about the way Virtual Guitarist works that you like... rather that just suggesting it- that would be good to know... especially with the idea that we may choose to have a feature like that for you guys at some point either as a script in Kontakt 2 or in a virtual instrument with IK or who knows?).

Thanks

That would actually be a nice step for SR to take in the future. The Kontakt 2 accoustic guitar strum script/patch is a very good piece of work IMHO (something like 3000 separate strum and fret noise samples with unlimited strum pattern possibilties). However, their electric guitar script/patch absolutely sucks (IMHO). There is plenty of opportunity for a company like SR to use K2 script technology as a platform for an amazing electric guitar emulation (and probably a lot of other emulations that I can't think of).

-B

[DocAtlas]

Thanks for your help. I was trying to get rhythm guitar sounds in SampleTank. I guess I was barking up the right tree with the arpeggiator.

I've had very good results with 'strumming' the guitars in Sampletank 2 by using either Music Lab's Rhythm 'n' Chords, or some of the midi files from Keyfax, such as Guitar Grooves. In the former, you lay out the chords you want strummed, and paste in the rhythm patterns beneath them. In the latter, you can transpose & edit the midi strumming (it was recorded off of a midi guitar) to fit your song. Either one works very well with the Sampltank Guitars.

[spillway]

Thanks for the tips. Can anyone post their best rhythm guitar clips and tell me which method they used?