New sampling tools at chickensys

[tomg]

Not to step on Tom's toes, I'm sure his exposition will far more elegant, here's the quick version:

No problem. You probably know it better than me anyway.

[1-2-Many]

I'm still on the perfect quest for an app that will allow the easy creation of soundfonts, as everything currently out there falls way short, especially in the looping/mapping department.

VSampler is AFAIK is the best SF construction tool out there. Much more dependable at making sfonts than used as a sampler. It was killer when it was $60.00 but now it's $180.00 and still not all that stable. For building sfonts it's super easy though. Once you learn how to get around that is.

Hey Tom,
Would you like to write a quick tutorial for doing soundfonts with Vsampler for me? Hurry though, cause I recently DL the demo, so I've got less than 30 days.

No, really I spent about an hour with the demo and couldn't make heads or tails of anything - like you say, this one's not the easiest to learn.

Here you go. It's a little terse but there are so many ways to do things I just went the direct route. It's enough to get you started anyway.

http://www.ele4music.com/sfont/vsampler_sfont_help.htm

Wow!!! Thanks Tom! I was really joking about you writing me a tut (well, ok, halfway ).

Quite gracious of you - and yes, terse, but it gives a great leg up. Next items that may give me issues are layering and cross fading(key and velocity) sample maps, and loop editing. - hint, hint

[1-2-Many]

Thanks to Bassballjg too!!!

Ya see, stuff like this is why I love KvR

[Bassballjg]

Thanks to Bassballjg too!!!

Ya see, stuff like this is why I love KvR

You're very welcome. Actually, I didn't know the proceedure that Tom outlines in his tutorial. I don't recall reading it in the rather sketchy documentation provided with the instrument. I don't know if the German documents are better, but the English docs are very incomplete and I think that this has contributed to VSampler not being as popular as it ought to be.

Meanwhile, back on topic, I would be very interested in a universal instrument builder. Such a program would revolutionize the lives of DIY sampler users, and small developers like me. ESC promises similar functionality in a future update, and I also wish Garth success in his enterprise.

(edit for proper capitalization, 4:46 pm, 1646 hours EDT 5/1/06)

[1-2-Many]

Yes, there is absolutely nothing on importing wavs, sampling, looping, mapping, export, etc...in either the embedded helpfile, or the pdf manual (english) - that coupled with a somewhat non-intuitive interface makes a roadblock for people trying the demo - It looks to be a great sampler otherwise. My only reason for trying so hard with it is that it came highly recommended for creating soundfonts and that's where I'm at ATM

[tahome]

Thanks for the tip - checked it out. Discontinued but they only made it for OS9.

Still there may be some hope there.

What did you like about it in comparison to others?

For instance, I LOVE CoolEdit, the original one. It's lighter and tighter than SoundForge, and feels really good. SF tends to be less intuitive IMHO, and SF7 was full of really bad bugs - fixed in 8, but still.

I never found an editor on the PC that really worked for me and I've been mainly working on the Mac with sonicworx for sound editing most of the time (when I started out mastering in the 1990s PCs were for playing games and doing office work, not for editing audio).

I like the whole concept of sonciworx and the fact that it is ligthning fast when editing, copying, pasting, inserting channels asf. It also has the best batch processor I've ever seen and it just supports you in your work instead of eg. refusing a paste operation because of non matching sample rates (like Peak does). It does the sample rate conversion automatically and lets you concentrate on the important things.

Also, its realtime and offline DSP processes are by far the best I've ever seen in an editor... check it out (it's a free download from the freebies site) if you have an OS 9 compatible Mac somewhere.

--th

[Bassballjg]

Yes, there is absolutely nothing on importing wavs, sampling, looping, mapping, export, etc...in either the embedded helpfile, or the pdf manual (english) - that coupled with a somewhat non-intuitive interface makes a roadblock for people trying the demo - It looks to be a great sampler otherwise. My only reason for trying so hard with it is that it came highly recommended for creating soundfonts and that's where I'm at ATM

VSampler hads been my primary instrument builder for over a year, with its export to sf2 ability and being able to do the basic sample edits in keymap context is wonderful. I can trim, loop normailze, reverse and more then export the wav files for use in creating WusikSND and Sampletank instruments, or sf2 to use in making Kontakt instrumets or directly used in the HG Fortune synths.

In fact, my problem is that it has become such a utility for me, I am failing to give it justice as an instrument in its own right. It is very powerful and sounds great. I can't say enough good about it documentation issues aside. Sometimes half the fun is discovering stuff by trial and error and accident. Ok, maybe not half the time, but I do wish more folks would look past its reputed (and real) difficulty and get into this sampler.

[tomg]

Meanwhile, back on topic, I would be very interested in a universal instrument builder. Such a program would revolutionize the lives of DIY sampler users, and small developers like me. ESC promises similar functionality in a future update, and I also wish Garth success in his enterprise.

If you've got ExSC and Vsampler you've got it already. I might be giving away the cow here but.. Once you've got a sfont ExSC will convert it to just about anything you want.

Wow!!! Thanks Tom! I was really joking about you writing me a tut (well, ok, halfway ).

Quite gracious of you - and yes, terse, but it gives a great leg up. Next items that may give me issues are layering and cross fading(key and velocity) sample maps, and loop editing. - hint, hint

You're welcome, no problem. I just barely scratched the surface. Sorry, I left out the part where on the Instrument grid, you rename patches by clicking and rearrange banks by dragging the patches around.

You can do stuff like import entire sample CDs with one click and then convert the banks pretty much as-is into sfonts or waves. You can rearrange and rename to suit your preferances. Although Vsampler is a pretty good at a lot of things it can get unstable. If you are a sample guy and always messing with rearranging and building sample sets, vsampler may be just what you're looking for.

Vsampler is HUGE! There is so much it can do you really have to spend some time with it, pm me if you don't get something. Not that I'm a guru or anything.

[tomg]

VSampler hads been my primary instrument builder for over a year, with its export to sf2 ability and being able to do the basic sample edits in keymap context is wonderful. I can trim, loop normailze, reverse and more then export the wav files for use in creating WusikSND and Sampletank instruments, or sf2 to use in making Kontakt instrumets or directly used in the HG Fortune synths.

In fact, my problem is that it has become such a utility for me, I am failing to give it justice as an instrument in its own right. It is very powerful and sounds great.

Yep

I can't say enough good about it documentation issues aside. Sometimes half the fun is discovering stuff by trial and error and accident. Ok, maybe not half the time, but I do wish more folks would look past its reputed (and real) difficulty and get into this sampler.

Yep

There is so much I want to say but the (tu) works in a way words never could.

[chickeneps]

Meanwhile, back on topic, I would be very interested in a universal instrument builder. Such a program would revolutionize the lives of DIY sampler users, and small developers like me. ESC promises similar functionality in a future update, and I also wish Garth success in his enterprise.

If you've got ExSC and Vsampler you've got it already. I might be giving away the cow here but.. Once you've got a sfont ExSC will convert it to just about anything you want.

Translator offers many more output formats than ESC, plus many features that ESC has and many more that ESC doesn't have. Chicken Systems also offers custom features and support, so if you are needing something particular, often you can email or call up and we get the function in there within the week.

Translator NOW (not in a future promised functionality) has the Script Mapper, where you can easily build any instrument (not just a SoundFont) in a text editor or spreadsheet, with any parameter you'd like.

Just thought that deserved mention.

[Sascha Franck]

I totally agree that a comfortable sample patch editor with multiple target formats would be a great thing to have. Destructive editing, loop point finding and mangling, all that stuff... would be even better if there was plugin support for the destructive editing part of it.
But, thinking of it, what I need when doing sampler patches is some sort of realtime control, read: It's go to be playable. Which is especially important when doing velocity layers. Doesn't necessarily need to be a VSTi/AU, standalone would be just fine, perhaps along with some simple ADSR and a simple filter, just to sort of "preview" things. All the other nifty things would've to be done in your target sampler of choice anyways, because there's a pretty huge difference in how further sound mangling options are implemented.
Ok, sure, it'd be nice to have some modulation options on board (LFO speed, amount, waveform, pitchbend values, etc etc... but all that would only be a bonus, nothing essential. The realtime play thing however is - at least for me. Personally, I do change a lot in my velocity mappings once I've got the zones done.

Just an idea...

[tomg]

If you've got ExSC and Vsampler you've got it already. I might be giving away the cow here but.. Once you've got a sfont ExSC will convert it to just about anything you want.

Translator offers many more output formats than ESC, plus many features that ESC has and many more that ESC doesn't have. Chicken Systems also offers custom features and support, so if you are needing something particular, often you can email or call up and we get the function in there within the week.

Translator NOW (not in a future promised functionality) has the Script Mapper, where you can easily build any instrument (not just a SoundFont) in a text editor or spreadsheet, with any parameter you'd like.

Just thought that deserved mention.

No problem, mention it anytime but you were quoting me. Ok.. it was a little tricky...

I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers. I agree that Translator supports more formats, does more stuff, and cost more money but but they are mostly formats and hardware things we don't use very often.

For us PC virtual sampler guys and VST builders it's true that once we've got a sfont ExSC will convert it to just about anything we want. If you already have Vsampler and ExSC not only do you have a already paid for open ended system but it's really nice. Just thought that deserved mention too.

[chickeneps]

Translator offers many more output formats than ESC, plus many features that ESC has and many more that ESC doesn't have. Chicken Systems also offers custom features and support, so if you are needing something particular, often you can email or call up and we get the function in there within the week.

I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers. I agree that Translator supports more formats, does more stuff, and cost more money but but they are mostly formats and hardware things we don't use very often.

That's completely incorrect; Translator converts into practically all hardware samplers AND software samplers. If there are any software samplers that Translator doesn't support, THEY are the ones that we don't use very often.

Translator supports all 9 major software samplers, ESC only supports 3.5. If you count VSampler, you are still under 50%.

EXS: Translator
Kontakt: Translator, ESC
Giga: Translator, ESC
Reason NNXT: Translator, ESC
MachFive: Translator
HALion: Translator
SampleTank II: Translator (ESC does ST1 but that's limiting)
Independence: Translator
Emulator X: Translator

Plus, if you just have one sampler (which is common), Translator is actually cheaper - $79.95.

Also, this is a Chicken Systems thread, I remember last time I mentioned Translator on a ESC thread I got unduly flamed.

I didn't intend to make this thread argumentative, I respect anyone who uses any other program, and I respect ESC a whole lot. I wasn't intending to make an either-or comparison.

[Sascha Franck]

I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers. I agree that Translator supports more formats, does more stuff, and cost more money but but they are mostly formats and hardware things we don't use very often.

Hey, I didn't write that!

[tomg]

I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers. I agree that Translator supports more formats, does more stuff, and cost more money but but they are mostly formats and hardware things we don't use very often.

Also, this is a Chicken Systems thread, I remember last time I mentioned Translator on a ESC thread I got unduly flamed.

I didn't intend to make this thread argumentative, I respect anyone who uses anything other program. I wasn't making an either-or comparison.

Ok.. whatever floats your boat. But you are still quoating me?!? Did I somehow stumble into the Chicken Sys forum? I could have sworn this was the general "Samples, Sampling and Sample Libraries forum". Your company name may be on the thread title... So what? That makes it your thread? Where I'm not allowed to post? Good one! You're not from around here are you?