KVR Audio

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Tue May 02, 2006 10:36 pm

Wow ... outstanding quality response.

Thanks everyone for such interesting and colourful suggestions

I've been using too much digital delay lately and getting stuck in a formulaic rut with 1/4 note/1/8 dotted stereo pings. All too clean.

But I'm not so keen on those lfo multi modulated delays either as they destroy too much of the original sound, recreating something new, rather than developing "character".

I'll try the suggestions in this thread on some electric guitar solos I've been working on, trying to get something "bad, live & trashy".

Thanks again, and any more ideas are very welcome.

Last thought: Are there any "pro" tape delay plugs out there besides the freeware ones?

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Tue May 02, 2006 10:49 pm

While the bionic delay is close, someone should f**king do a Logic TapeDelay clone! I mean, it's using up like *no* CPU resources on more or less recent computers - something that can't be said for the bionic delay.

ericj23 · Post by **ericj23** » Tue May 02, 2006 10:49 pm

Uncle E wrote:A part of that sound came from creating a feedback looping the delay back into itself & that sounds great whether tape or bucket brigade echoes are used. If your host can't do this, this feedback loop plug-in may be able to help:

http://www.subminimal.org/tools.php

The H&K Replex does a fantastic job of mimicking the tape echo sound by running a standard, ultra-clean digital delay through an overdriven 12AX7. I guess the point I'm trying to make by mentioning this is you can do a lot to help the sound of any standard delay plug-in by running filters & distortions after it (a proper tube-style overdrive should do the filtering for you). This allows you more control than you'd ever get with a real tape echo, too.

Personally, I have a Replex, two real Space Echos, & numerous Ibanez, Maxon, & Moog bucket brigade delays, & none of the native plug-ins (including the Logic & Bionic delays) come anywhere close. I get better results running the Steinberg Dual Delay through the TBT Saturator.

lee perry and king tubby (my dub guru's) both used space echo's but with additional feedback controls - so the signal would be fed back into itself - in perry's case it would typically be going through a mutron before coming back in

instant warm slightly distorted murk

I have never found a satisfactory way of doing this in a daw - always being a sample or two behind seems to give a very hard phased kind of edge that just isn't what im looking for

it doesn't help that cubase doesnt even allow feedback loops so they have to be done externally

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Tue May 02, 2006 10:50 pm

Uncle E wrote:Personally, I have a Replex, two real Space Echos, & numerous Ibanez, Maxon, & Moog bucket brigade delays, & none of the native plug-ins (including the Logic & Bionic delays) come anywhere close. I get better results running the Steinberg Dual Delay through the TBT Saturator.

Thing is, the usefulness of logic tape delay (and the analogic clone) isn't the emulation of real units. It's their unique sound. Nothing else does the synched-speed-change-dub-swirl-to-death-saturation quite so well. It works miracles with automation.

Yes, they sound thoroughly digital while doing it, but that's not the point, or any kind of problem with sound quality. I consider them "hyper realistic" tape delays. A digital sound "more analog" than any real units.

Sascha Franck wrote:While the bionic delay is close, someone should f**king do a Logic TapeDelay clone! I mean, it's using up like *no* CPU resources on more or less recent computers - something that can't be said for the bionic delay.

Indeed. I'm thinking it's a lucky accident they had with the plugin design.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue May 02, 2006 10:57 pm

UAD-1 RE-201, Ohm Force OhmBoyz, PSP 84, Voxengo Analog Suite, etc. The RE-201 is the only really good plug-in I've heard.

btw, as a guitarist, the tape echo sound counts more when I'm playing clean, Eric Johnson-type pretty stuff, not on the distorted solos.

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:11 pm

Well inspired by this thread i've had a long play with some of the delays mentioned & I have to say that i'm really impressed with the p1 tape delay.
It's a plugin i've had around for a long time, but never really had a good play with & i've got some excellent sounds out of it tonight - & it hardly even registers on the cpu.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:16 pm

Kingston wrote: Indeed. I'm thinking it's a lucky accident they had with the plugin design.

No. Unfortunately it's like that with a lot of their plugins. Too bad.

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:28 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:
Kingston wrote: Indeed. I'm thinking it's a lucky accident they had with the plugin design.
No. Unfortunately it's like that with a lot of their plugins. Too bad.

IMO 95% of it was bread & butter boredom originally.

Never used them much, apart from a very few very unique ones(tape delay, tremolo, probably about 5 others I liked). Then they came up with ES-2, the hammond, rhodes and then the more recent mac only stuff, which have been better or equalled as well nowadays.

Can't say I really miss anything but the tape delay and tremolo (which I will clone myself pretty soon)

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:32 pm

Kingston wrote:
IMO 95% of it was bread & butter boredom originally. Never used them much, apart from a very few very unique ones(tape delay, tremolo, probably about 5 others I liked). Then they came up with ES-2, the hammond, rhodes and then the more recent mac only stuff, which have been better or equalled as well nowadays.

I sort of agree for the FX plugins, but the EVD6 is still unrivalled, so is the ES2, EVOC and whatever (their organ is truly great too). And there's not much samplers with a filter like the EXS one either. Too bad, really.

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:34 pm

diverdee

Well inspired by this thread i've had a long play with some of the delays mentioned & I have to say that i'm really impressed with the p1 tape delay.

Got a link for this?

mammath · Post by **mammath** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:46 pm

kevvvvv wrote:Got a link for this?

Yeah, I was just about to ask as well.
I searched everywhere but couldn't find one.

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:54 pm

edited: - it isn't there - bollox.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed May 03, 2006 12:14 am

That P1-Tapedelay...I know I've tried it, I can't remember why I stopped using it. Funny how that "Bomb That Beat" page still comes up, but everything's a 404.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Wed May 03, 2006 12:17 am

The developer for P1 used to hang around here as aldi if I remember correctly, but I don't know if he still does or not.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed May 03, 2006 12:25 am

Huhn. Well, I think Uncle E has the right idea, and come to think of it; last year I went on a crusade and tried every single VST plugin I could, and I just couldn't get the tape delay effect I was looking for (Floyd, Animals) and wound up driving and automating a filter on the delay. Took a fraction of the time and was much more fun.

What's the best Tape Delay?