Is there a host that does midi clip freeze?

[swivel]

Well, just like the topic says is there a host that allows you to build a clip using midi (or audio), apply all kinds of FX, then freeze it and release all processor power used by FX? The difference between this and regular track-freeze being that frozen clips could then be rearranged just like audio clips, you could have multiple frozen clips with different FX settings in the same track, and at anytime you could unfreeze 1-clip to work on it (without impacting the rest of the track).

After a lot of experimenting, I've found that applying VST FX track by track doesn't really suit my 'loop-based' way of working. I would really like to do most things on a clip based level... generating clips, and then building beats and songs with those now frozen clips - but of course having the option to unfreeze any clip at any time to work on it (in the mix context).

Another bonus would be to be able to chop, crop, and rearrange a frozen clip recycle-style, and then be able to edit the source-clip without having to redo the 'recycled' one, ie the rearranged clip would play the same arrangement offsets etc but with the modified source-clip material.

I'm mostly using energyxt now, and have high hopes for xt2, but is there actually any host right now that lets you do this? (I had hopes for Ableton Live, but reading the ableton forums it seems freeze is just on a track level)

[sidefx604]

I'd recommend you from getting away of any freezing process. Try out Silverspike Tapeit2 (http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:TapeIt) as it does bouncing wherever you place it in your chains. place it b4 fx to get a dry bounce, place several tapeits to do multitrack bounce to individual wavs. etc etc.

what you get is a bounced wave file that allows rearranging.

the midi track and automation stays intact.

[stefancrs]

You can do the same in Podium, probably in other hosts as well.

[jens]

I'm mostly using energyxt now, and have high hopes for xt2, but is there actually any host right now that lets you do this?

Sonar and Samplitude

[headquest]

is there actually any host right now that lets you do this? (I had hopes for Ableton Live, but reading the ableton forums it seems freeze is just on a track level)

I think the closest is probably Sonar. In Sonar you can move frozen clips without unfreezing them. Also Sonar works very much at the clip level - you even have Clip Effects Bins (as well as the usual track ones) so that you can do stuff at Clip level independant of the rest of the track. And you can also destructively edit audio clips (e.g. applying effects). At an audio editing level you can edit loops which are stored in ACID format.

Regarding Ableton Live I can confirm that it only freezes at Track level, although you can still reorganise clips and do various things "Live" using frozen clips (e.g. retrigger clips at a different time, change level/pan/crossfade/etc).

I hope that helps.

[swivel]

I'd recommend you from getting away of any freezing process. Try out Silverspike Tapeit2 (http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:TapeIt) as it does bouncing wherever you place it in your chains. place it b4 fx to get a dry bounce, place several tapeits to do multitrack bounce to individual wavs. etc etc.

what you get is a bounced wave file that allows rearranging.

the midi track and automation stays intact.

I'm familiar with TapeIt, and EnergyXT actually does a good job of rendering down like this too. But I am really looking for a 2-eay process where if I decide to go back and edit the source midi-clip all places where the frozen clip was used are also updated.

With the TapeIt method this isn't really doable... I guess I could go into the file directory and replace the wav with the new one, but that would be quite long, tedious and also prone to error unfortunately . Plus I'd like to edit the FX at any place in the song where it is used (in context)

[sinkmusic]

Just try Reaper :

- You make your midi track ;
- then you "consolidate" it or render the output to another track (audio) : you're there.
- if you want that your midi track still be able to get edited or modified later, just, but save cpu, just disable the vsti and keep the track.

Ableton Live does that too (usual "freezing", or sending the midi track to an audio track and recording it).

[diverdee]

Regarding Lives Freeze function, it is a track based freeze - but freezes the individual clips contained in the track, as detailed below one is still allowed some control over the frozen clips e.g. launching them in a different order from the seesion view grid etc.

24.1.3 Track Freeze
Live's Freeze Track command, available from the Edit menu, can greatly help in managing the CPU load incurred by devices and clip settings. When you select a track and execute the Freeze command, Live will create a sample file for each clip in the track, calculating and freezing the contribution of devices and clip parameters. Thereafter, clips in the track will simply play back their freeze samples rather than repeatedly calculating processor-intensive device and clip settings in real time.
Most device and clip features in frozen tracks are not accessible. However, launching clips can still be done freely, and mixer controls such as volume, pan and the sends are still available. Note that track freeze is not part of Live's Undo history, but executing the Edit
menu's Undo command to undo an action that affected a frozen clip will automatically unfreeze the respective track.

[swivel]

OK, thanks. I'll take a further look at Ableton & Samplitude. Perhaps also Reaper, but I tried it a few months back and didn't really like it.

headquest, thanks for the Sonar tip, I used to have Sonar 3 but there were too many things I didn't like about it that caused me to go to energyxt.

I guess superddman's thread (Petition: Should all hosts have "render to track" feature?) was about something similar too.

[swivel]

Actually, I just had another look at reaper - I like the simplicity, even though it doesn't work too well at 1024x768.

But it looks very easy to disable FX after a render to save CPU. And it definitely has improved a lot.

[Art Evans]

I'll take a further look at Ableton & Samplitude. Perhaps also Reaper, but I tried it a few months back and didn't really like it.

With typically more than ten releases a month, a few months back is a looooong time in Reaper development. Good to hear you've been prepared to give it another try - I'm sure you'll find it worthwhile to stay on board this time.

[headquest]

headquest, thanks for the Sonar tip, I used to have Sonar 3 but there were too many things I didn't like about it that caused me to go to energyxt.

Quite agree about Sonar 3. I demoed and didn't get it. Annoying in so many ways!

Then I demoed ..... and didn't get Sonar 4 either. Yep, still annoying imho!

Sonar 5 has a much better workflow though. MUCH better. And the clip based approach you seem to be after only really came about in version 5. That's why I finally changed my mind and got into the whole Sonar thing...

...but I still use and love Ableton Live 5 as well (of course!!). In fact I still probably use it more than Sonar for composition (just for the record!)...

Anyway, good luck finding the best fit for you. (And I need to check out Reaper as I don't know it at all yet).

[pdxindy]

Well, just like the topic says is there a host that allows you to build a clip using midi (or audio), apply all kinds of FX, then freeze it and release all processor power used by FX? The difference between this and regular track-freeze being that frozen clips could then be rearranged just like audio clips, you could have multiple frozen clips with different FX settings in the same track, and at anytime you could unfreeze 1-clip to work on it (without impacting the rest of the track).

It does not work this way now, but it could easily. Tracktion that is. And what you describe is exactly how I would like Tracktion to work. And Live too.

I want to create a midi clip, toss on a synth and fx to the clip, be able to freeze it, then move it, shorten it and adjust volume. Just as you describe, is what I most want for a host workflow.

Tracktion suits this well because it can already have both midi and audio clips on the same track so it would be a short step to the full thing. Since I am on a Mac, I cannot try the other choices offered.

[swivel]

Sonar 5 has a much better workflow though. MUCH better. And the clip based approach you seem to be after only really came about in version 5. That's why I finally changed my mind and got into the whole Sonar thing...

I remember back in the day, my main problem with Sonar was the glitches when setting up a looped region - it would cut the first note off and sometimes introduce a delay in the loop. (audio engine not 'gapless'). I've also grown fond now of the small efficient apps like energyxt, and vemberaudio stuff so it'll be hard going back! but maybe I'll give it a go if nothing else pans out.

It does not work this way now, but it could easily. Tracktion that is. And what you describe is exactly how I would like Tracktion to work. And Live too.

I want to create a midi clip, toss on a synth and fx to the clip, be able to freeze it, then move it, shorten it and adjust volume. Just as you describe, is what I most want for a host workflow.

Yeh, what I envision is a hihat track that would have 5-6 or more 1-bar patterns. Each pattern is frozen in audio, but each one was made with a different set of VST's and midi patterns. The frozen clips can be chopped and diced and mixed together in audio, but at any time the source midi/VST settings can be accessed to fine-tune the clip - but this only unfreezes the VSTFX on that 1-clip leaving all the others frozen, and thus the CPU load light.