KVR Audio

Summa · Post by **Summa** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:42 pm

D-Fusion wrote:Go to www.Clavia.se & Download the demo of G2x modular program and see what you think (Even the most basic patch can bring your cpu to it's knees and that is in mono mode)

Then you will also hear the difference between vst's & Virtual analogs

The demo doesn't even sound half as good as the hardware, since adds noise at high frequencies while the hardware sounds pretty clean...

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:45 pm

i'd like to hear somebody come up with some music, the lyrics could be like "why does vsts suck? i cannot speakidy teh engrish... why dont i just shut up and compose, the painter should never blame his paint brush. but i'm a fool, and woe is me...i spent three hours last night stealing my paint brush, i dont know how to paint..." etc. if you dont like vst, you could have some banging pots or something instead making up the melody. would be a hell of a lot more entertaining than the average "vst vs hardware" or "tracne" threads.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:49 pm

it is possible also that when trying to compose a specific music, you're almost trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. i mean, you wouldnt use a banjo for a late 80s punk rock band guitar solo, would you? different instruments are all distinct. it doesnt matter what type of instrument they are, you have to find the right places to use them.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:52 pm

aciddose wrote: i mean, you wouldnt use a banjo for a late 80s punk rock band guitar solo, would you?

"Boys From County Hell" by the Pogues?

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:52 pm

beej wrote:You know, in terms of synths anyway, I'm more and more convinced that the reason some people think software synths don't sound as good as hardware is because of one of the strong points of using a computer - the display.

More and more our attention is focused on the screen, and you are simply not responding to the sound with as much concentration as when you are just playing a hardware synth.

Try this: load up you favourite (decent) synth, assign the patch up/down buttons to buttons on your hardware controller, and some of the more meaningful synth parameters (ADSR, filter, waves etc) to knobs, and then TURN THE COMPUTER MONITOR OFF - and just play...

You hit the nail so damned hard on the head. EXACTLY my feeling. Lately I've been studying this "monitor distraction syndrome" and noticed that my mastering improves a lot when I turn off the monitor and only tweak knobs that are routed to parameters or some hardware box. As incredible as it sounds I think that the eyes actually steal a lot of "processing capacity" of the brain making it harder to focus on the sound.

Another thing that I've noticed is that the more cluttered the screen is with various VU, clip, led meters the more I have trouble actually listening.

I'm pretty sure this is one of the biggest dilemmas which is why something like the Muse Receptor could be the best thing for creativity.

Cheers!
bManic

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:54 pm

"'Boys From County Hell' by the Pogues?"

oh god please no :(

i was actually worried my example might be the inspiration for an mp3 further down the thread, but around here on kvr such a thing is rare. in some places (mostly irc) we throw mp3s all over the place during conversation.i was considering pulling a megadeath track and replacing the solo with some banjo music from teletubbies. something like raining blood would be perfect. he's like screaming about blood and pain and death and suddenly its like "oh look! there's humpywumpy! what a nice day to play!" etc.

beej · Post by **beej** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:03 pm

bManic - thanks for the support.

My first realisation of how profound the effect is was when I got a Mackie Control, and didn't need to focus on the screen while mixing. All of a sudden I could close my eyes, and just "feel" the faders, pans and so on. Straight away I started hearing the mix more, and found it much easier to get depth. (I also rediscovered the fun of jamming on a desk again that I'd lost with software, but that's a different issue).

It's also true with editing - often you focus on getting the waveforms looking "correct" rather than getting it to sound right.

I'm all for computers, but I do think that there's a lot to be said for simplicity and restricting visual interfaces - I love the UAD LA2A for example - complicated behaviour, but a two-knob interface.

It's not enough just to close your eyes, because it's too easy to open them to look again. I really recommend mixing - or at least getting a rough mix together - with the computer monitors off. If you have a control surface like the Mackie Control where you really can operate the computer more like a hardware recorder, I recommend trying to operate it that way, at least for a while.

It won't suit everybody, but it sure makes your ears (and brain) more sensitive....

> As incredible as it sounds I think that the eyes actually steal a lot of "processing capacity" of
> the brain making it harder to focus on the sound.

I *think* this is a recognised cognitive phsychological behaviour (I haven't done the reading for a long time) - the brain is very heavily dependent on visual processing, and devotes a significant amount of attention to visual processing and interpretation. Without visuals, the brain works a lot harder on the other senses to get a "picture" of what;s going on, because it can't get that information from the visuals. It seems the brain treats most senses as "supportive" to the visual sense...

3*s · Post by **3*s** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:09 pm

With dedicated DSP:

1. The CPUs are designed specifically to do the kinds of calculations required by DSP, so you get more bang for you mhz.

2. They're for the plugs only, no sequencer, OS, background apps, or whatever else. I don't imagine it would be too hard to make an analog emulation as accurate as a UAD plugin, if it could take up %50 of the CPU per instance.

A note on the virus B, it definitely doesn't sound as "analog" as any of the new stuff, but there's something in the character that I can't find in anything else. It's in the way the filter responds to modulation, it sounds "quick." Especially with short attacks. I've tried different envelope curves and all that, but nothing seems to do it. Z3ta+ kinda gets there, but unsatisfactorily. Minimonsta is the closest I've heard, but that's a moog emulation (albeit a really good one) and not a full blown VA.

3*s · Post by **3*s** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:14 pm

screens suck

I find while producing that windowskey D-ing out of the sequencer window gives me a suprisingly fresh perspective on what I've just done. It feels like I can hear more than what was there before.

bagginz · Post by **bagginz** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:14 pm

'would be a hell of a lot more entertaining than the average "vst vs hardware" or"tracne" threads."

I do believe that you spelled "tracne" incorrectly. it's actually spelled tarnce.

cheers,
Bagginz

TRN76 · Post by **TRN76** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:28 pm

mmmkay snooky, guess ya the pro..

Anyway, its true that the TI isnt as fat as jp.. I think even Korg Legacy is fatter, but that doesent mean its not good. If thats the case, thousands of producers are wrong then?

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:35 pm

beej wrote: I *think* this is a recognised cognitive phsychological behaviour (I haven't done the reading for a long time) - the brain is very heavily dependent on visual processing, and devotes a significant amount of attention to visual processing and interpretation. Without visuals, the brain works a lot harder on the other senses to get a "picture" of what;s going on, because it can't get that information from the visuals. It seems the brain treats most senses as "supportive" to the visual sense...

It is, and easy enough to prove true by yourself, like you have done.

I close my eyes or look down all the time just focus on the sound while on the knobs. I think many do that, IMHO it's way better to see the sounds in my head than on the screen... now if I could also play the keys without looking at them I'd be just fine

Ok maybe not related but I need to stand up and bob back and forth like an idiot in order to make decent rythms or basslines

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:39 pm

3*s wrote:I find while producing that windowskey D-ing out of the sequencer window gives me a suprisingly fresh perspective on what I've just done. It feels like I can hear more than what was there before.

SHIIIT!!!

Imagine how would you feel if you learned that key shortcut at the tender age of 29, after 15 years of Windows

you're welcome for a free cold beer at the little pub downstairs anytime! Thanks.

Colonel Flashback · Post by **Colonel Flashback** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:41 pm

lol! just in case you need some more: http://www.seoconsultants.com/windows/key/

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Wed May 10, 2006 2:00 pm

TRN76 wrote:mmmkay snooky, guess ya the pro..

Anyway, its true that the TI isnt as fat as jp.. I think even Korg Legacy is fatter, but that doesent mean its not good. If thats the case, thousands of producers are wrong then?

Why wouldn't they be?

Hardware vs. Software aka why do VST sucks?