Hardware vs. Software aka why do VST sucks?

[Spaceman Sounds]

Oh and some hardwar fx just cannot be emulatoed yet (I hope they can soon)... like analog phasers. All the vitual ones sound awfull. I would say the same about distortion and tube emulations as well. Hopefully they will be able to nail the Mutron Bi Phase phaser sound soon

[Distorted_Mastermind]

I like both myself. For synths/samplers I prefer vst synths because they are cheaper and capable of many sounds without consuming mass amounts of space. For sampling most of the time I prefer my ASRX because it is fast, doesn't hog cpu, has more than enough sample time, and best of all it doesn't have a screen so I can't see anything and have to trust my ears.
For effects I use damn near all vst's because they are cheaper and take less space.
Certain things it's hard to beat the real deal on....guitars, microphones, turntables, preamps.
It's all preference imo on a simple level. VST's don't suck at all, in reality they kick serious booty since they save lots of cash and space and sound damn good as well. Hardware vs Software.....the software is a real nice tool, but some things can't be emulated (sometimes something as simple as character).

[beej]

i would have bought an Oasys (the original, DSP sound card / modular synth) if i had the money, and had known about it.

The sound card is not the original Oasys - it's a low end spin off of some of the technology Korg developed for the Oasys project.

The original Oasys was a hugely expensive, never-released physical modelling uber-synth with probably the most advanced models available.

Even Joe Bryan said they were too ahead of the curve for it to be accepted, so it was abandoned and some of the technology simplified and repurposed which gave us the Oasys PCI card, the Prophecy, the Z1, and in fact the core audio engines of most of Korg following products for years...

[Touch_the_Universe]

I think in 10 years software will replace all hardware! They will have a rock solid activation code for the new synths, so no piracy! With more people in to softsynths, ie cheaper and more around, I'm sure a whole lot of stuff we can't even imagine will born itself not on hardware, but software!

[Urs]

One thing that hardware does have over software..... if the hardware company goes bust you can still use the instrument. If the software company goes bust, how are you going to re authorize your software when you have to do a re format etc???

Simple trick: Only buy things that register with serial numbers and find a secure place to store these. Avoid challenge-response or things that can get lost otherwise, i.e. small physical items. For companies that do online distribution, create a mailbox where you collect all important emails from the software vendors and make backups from time to time.

The major problem then is, when a company runs void, you might have to keep the computer/os configuration around, just like you have to keep old hardware if you want to use it years later. In terms of software, you can fold the time back (hey, I can even launch Creator on my Atari ST, or on any Atari ST that still works), analog gear can be repaired... but nowadays digital gear... hmmm... not sure. (I got a broken DP-4, but I doubt that it's worth repairing)

However, the point is valid. The future of any software product is uncertain. Many musicians still work on MacOS 9 because of Opcode Studio Vision. It simply doesn't work on the latest computers because the product was endoflifed when Gibson aquired Opcode.

On the other hand, while hardware gives you the promise to last so and so long without extra investment (repairs, overhauls, modifications), there's also the point that only a few things really keep the importance for your work. I still own a Wavestation, a CZ1000, an EPS16+, the broken DP-4 and a Virus. That's 6500$ I spent while I was a pupil/student and I had to save years for them. Sure, they still work (except for the DP-4), but tell me one reason to turn them on...

I think that it's also mostly true that whatever stuff you buy today, be it software or hardware, you can be lucky if it's still useful after 5 years, no matter if it still works or not. Just like computers typically get replaced in 3-year cycles. We're living in a fast changing world. This also accounts for hardware.

Cheers,

Urs

[Sascha Franck]

I'm not sure whether this would happen indeed, but NI is explicitely stating in their FAQ that, should the company go downhill, they'd release universally working versions, not bound to a special system.

But yes, sure, this *is* a problem. Then there's non-platform compatibility, non-future-OS compatibility and the likes.
None of which applies to, say, any of my guitars and amps. I will still be able to use them in 20 years from now, whereas I'm sure that not a single of my currently used software items will be working at all anymore. So, in case the companies don't update their products, I won't be able to load older songs anymore either.
This allready happened just recently when Emagic abandoned VST support. Songs using VST plugins simply won't load anymore, regardless whether you got the AU versions of exactly the same plugin.
And fwiw, that's something I REALLY hate those mofos for. I've got tons of songs made under Windows that I will have to continue working on with the Mac I'm going to buy. And it's already since 1-2 years that I'm trying to only use plugins that exist as AUs as well. Yet, in case of Logic that doesn't help. I would have to load each and every song on my Windows box first, save the plugin settings from the internal plugin preset manager and then transfer them. Just that some plugins don't offer a preset menu. And old Logic plugin settings won't load into the AU versions either. Really, this is completely f**ked up and I'm sure I'm gonna have quite some nervous breakdowns when I will finally start converting some songs.
Now, while you don't buy upwards compatibility when buying any software, in case of Emapple it could've been easy to solve, just that they refused to do so.

[Spaceman Sounds]

My CS-30 still works lovely as does my ensoniq esq-1. And they are older than my girlfriend

I find the purely digital stuff craps out after a few years. All my analog stuff seems to last, and if it reaks it can be fixed pretty cheap.

[johnnytluxury]

My CS-30 still works lovely as does my ensoniq esq-1. And they are older than my girlfriend

Man my esq got blown out by something. I want it repaired!!!!

[Spaceman Sounds]

no software can come close to the dirt and grit of the esq-1. It's still my favourite synth.

[Sascha Franck]

Oh, and I should add that in case of Apple and Emagic, these things were happening quite often during the last, say, 5 years. First there's been the switch from OS9 to OSX. Then, in case of Emagic, there's been the switch from VST to AU. And now there's the Intel switch.
Under Windows, I can still load the very first VST plugins that ever existed (Wunderverb anyone?) and I can still even install Cubase 3.0 to load older songs.
Makes up for 10+ years of upwards compatibility, probably even more, whereas on the Mac/Logic side of things it has been more like 2-3 years.

Oh yes, I hear them coming the "you don't *have* to buy a new computer, you *can* keep the old computer around" things, etc.
Sure. But, in case of Windows I *can* buy a new computer without fear of losing my older songs, and without having outdated machines hanging around for compatibility purposes only.

[Kingston]

(Wunderverb anyone?)

YES! With pride!

[Sascha Franck]

(Wunderverb anyone?)

YES! With pride!

Btw, in some hosts (those offering alternate/generic plugin GUIs for all plugins, not only for GUI-less ones) you will have access to quite some hidden parameters of Wunderverb. Doesn't make it a better reverb but you can get some wishy-washy delay sounds out of it.

[.jon]

Of course I should now be a sly bloke and insert this here:

http://www.michaelkingston.fi/plugins.html

And while it's not exactly a saturator, it emulates (well simulates is the word more precisely) driven gain stages, and gain staging related distortion. Not the waveshaper bit, but a secondary side effect called intra-modulation, that's been sorely missing in all similar attempts in the past.

Demos, examples and freebies will be soon announced here on KVR and other similar places.

Looking fine, Kingston!

Can you tell me more about this phenomenom? I'm only vaguely familiar with intermodulation distortion as a negative thing from amp specs, but I guess this is different?

Does this make the signal warmer?

[beej]

Oh yes, I hear them coming the "you don't *have* to buy a new computer, you *can* keep the old computer around" things, etc.
Sure. But, in case of Windows I *can* buy a new computer without fear of losing my older songs, and without having outdated machines hanging around for compatibility purposes only.

Yes, largely because Windows OS development has been slow, because it's taken them so long to figure out how to match or overtake OSX in the next generation OS.

I doubt you'll be able to run those same plugins/applications on Vista for example. (Don't know for sure, hey, maybe you will, but I doubt it).

Yes, Apple has been a ride, it's often been that way, Apple are more willing to take risks because they are smaller than Microsoft. Whether you are prepared to put up with them depends on where you sit regarding the available products and features. If you compare the Windows of today with the Windows of 10 years ago, you won't actually see that much difference - on the Mac platform, the MacOs of 10 years ago was probably behind Windows, whereas now it's very much ahead. We'll see what happens when MS finally release Vista and after it's been in use and updated for a couple of years and stabilised.

For me, most of the hard Mac transitions are over, but for the Windows users, much of that is coming up ahead...

[Kingston]

Of course I should now be a sly bloke and insert this here:

http://www.michaelkingston.fi/plugins.html

And while it's not exactly a saturator, it emulates (well simulates is the word more precisely) driven gain stages, and gain staging related distortion. Not the waveshaper bit, but a secondary side effect called intra-modulation, that's been sorely missing in all similar attempts in the past.

Demos, examples and freebies will be soon announced here on KVR and other similar places.

Looking fine, Kingston!

Can you tell me more about this phenomenom? I'm only vaguely familiar with intermodulation distortion as a negative thing from amp specs, but I guess this is different?

Does this make the signal warmer?

Well it's a negative thing up to a point. You can use it to your advantage, as you will notice when you get a chance to try this. I mean, suppressed transients, symphatetic feedback, cross modulation, distortion and frequency loss are all a negative things by many standards, but here we are looking for them endlessly.

The "warmth", you know?

Although intramodulation is yet another more specific form of distortion, it does have a tendency to make things sound "retro" and "warm".

I believe in distortion.

God forgive me.