KVR Audio

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:58 am

leonard wrote:
jasonsantiago wrote:This whole bitching about iLoks is retarded. I can't believe more people aren't doing what many savvy but moral people have been doing -- pay for the software, use the crack.
Well, I think you haven't considered a couple of things:

1) other people may not feel as confortable as you about telling others the way you do. Maybe it's more common than you suspect.
2) I'm not that sure that you are not breaking the user agreement by installing the cracked version, even if you paid for the license.

I'm pretty sure you're breaking it, coz you're using another copy not distrubted by the owner - plus, depending on the method, the code would've been altered. But until the PATRIOT Act puts sniffers on all our hard drives, you just have to use your own moral compass if that's what you want to do. Personally, if manufacturers can't make "protection" that works or impairs performance, then I think the customer can do what needs to be done. Especially considering some of the pro-market prices and you think about time lost messing around with protection schemes.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:19 am

feyshay wrote:Agreed with Neodynium. Great plug-in.
I don't see the big deal about ILOK, really. I never used ILOK until I decided that I wanted PSP Neon HR. It takes up a USB port--big deal.

What? Your desktop might have 10 USB ports but many portable systems don't have enough and once you start adding peripherals dangling off them you don't have anything so portable anymore.

There is a simple argument about using hardware copy protection decices which consume resources: how would it be if every developer did this? Many people would have upwards of 100 different programs and plugins even on a single purpose DAW. How many of those program vendors could apply their own version of hardware protection and still leave users and other developers with a workable system? Consuming more than your share of a limited resource pool - especially when this is non-essential - is trashing your environment even if it is just the DAW market we are talking about. Vendors upping the ante to hardware protection is like everyone starting to drive huge vehicles like the Hummer because they think they'll come off better in an accident. The result? Fuel consumption and road space are in even shorter supply and you are back where you started in terms of safety.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:23 am

egbert wrote: What? Your desktop might have 10 USB ports but many portable systems don't have enough and once you start adding peripherals dangling off them you don't have anything so portable anymore.

Exactly.
So you either use lots of dongles with less authorizations, and as a result you may have to get some (probably PSU powered) additional USB hubs, effectively getting in the way of portability.
Or you get one or two dongles with lots of authorisations - and once you'll lose it you're totally f**ked.
Besides, my old Logic/PC XSKey already refuses to work on the same USB port as my mouse, so I have to pull the mouse out, start Logic, push the mouse back in. There might be similar problems with other dongles.

Besides, let's take Steinberg: When you purchase Cubase, ALL you effectively purchase is the dongle! At least the dongle represents ALL the value - because you gotta pay the full price for a new license should you lose it.
Now, these software companies are always comparing dongles with, say, the key to your house. Well, when I once lost the key of my appartment, I didn't have to buy anything that was in it again. I paid some euros to the unlocking service and some more euros for a new key and that was about it.
So all the hardware analogies just stink. And in case of Steinberg, all I can say is that they're brainfucked assholes, nothing else. Some companies do at least have a more userfriendly policy, they will only charge you a certain fee and you could reauthorize your software on a new dongle.

Still, losing a dongle with a few authorizations on it will cause anybody more hassle than, say, a harddrive crash or whatever. Heck, in case I'd use multiple authorisations I'd rather even have my laptop stolen than my dongle.
That just CAN'T be right.

Besides: Many people seem to think that C/R might be worse, because once the company goes out of business, you're f**ked.
Well, dongles are no better. Should I be losing my Logic dongle, there'd be NO WAY to get it replaced, even if the company once doing them still exists. Someone please tell me how that is any better than C/R...

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:31 am

I totally agree with that, Sascha. This is such a short-term "solution", it's frightening. You lose your dongle, too bad, so long, f**k you. That's not right.

arke · Post by **arke** » Tue May 23, 2006 8:19 am

I wonder how many people use Neodynium for their "professional work".

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Tue May 23, 2006 9:43 am

If it wasn't so tragic and sad it would be hilarious.

cptgone · Post by **cptgone** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:05 am

Sascha Franck wrote:Or you get one or two dongles with lots of authorisations - and once you'll lose it you're totally f**ked.

...and if the licence can't get transferred to a new key, you have to sell 'em all at once

it's happened before here at the Market Place you know.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:57 am

cptgone wrote: ...and if the licence can't get transferred to a new key, you have to sell 'em all at once it's happened before here at the Market Place you know.

WHAT? Please elaborate!

Klemperer · Post by **Klemperer** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:21 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:Besides: Many people seem to think that C/R might be worse, because once the company goes out of business, you're f**ked.
Well, dongles are no better. Should I be losing my Logic dongle, there'd be NO WAY to get it replaced, even if the company once doing them still exists. Someone please tell me how that is any better than C/R...

Of course it's not (I thought some while ago it was, after some C/R-hassle).
By the way, last week I met some guys, students at a film-university in some country nearby old Germany, and they talked like you, Sascha, about dongles, and like me about C/R (which, by losing all of its once-thought-of-sense, isn't this bad in case a company is VERY user-friendly). The only conclusion THEY (rich students, 3 times on holidays a year, nice hardware at their disposal, no shabby clothes, always fashionable) drew was, not buying this stuff, but cracking it. That's the point where we could begin this story for the 11386th time. That's true. But concerning donglemakers, it's been about time since ages (people are right to get blue in the face) to learn that people in, it seems, majorities use their products illegal just like they did before, so the dongle is something that failed to correct that.
My laptop has 2 USB-hubs, one not working great any more after 3 years. One is for my USB-card. That's about it.

Take the wonderful Xphraze, more a reFX-Wizoo product than from Steinberg, but sold from Steinberg too. No dongle. CD is needed for any update or after a crash. Now it would be interesting to know if Xphraze is more often used illegal than the other Steinberg - stuff. It's the only product I own from Steinberg stonehill, well, really more from Michael Kleps and old Wizoo, and a cheerio to them.

(A bit OT.)

Barf · Post by **Barf** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:12 pm

Those new names look like they've been made up by Babya tbh

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:27 pm

yes. it reminds me of some imaginary weapons you can hear in many cartoons or mangas

good for my 4 years old daughter...

Spaceman Sounds · Post by **Spaceman Sounds** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:49 pm

His recent article in SOS mag about how 24 bit affects bass prooves that he does NOT know his stuff

I actually think he's right on that point. But wrong on his marketing.

cptgone · Post by **cptgone** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:12 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:
cptgone wrote: ...and if the licence can't get transferred to a new key, you have to sell 'em all at once it's happened before here at the Market Place you know.
WHAT? Please elaborate!

I remember someone (ttoz?) posting in the Market Place, for some reason he couldn't transfer a license from his dongle, so he had to sell the licenses on it as a bundle.

arke · Post by **arke** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:16 pm

Spaceman Sounds wrote:
His recent article in SOS mag about how 24 bit affects bass prooves that he does NOT know his stuff
I actually think he's right on that point. But wrong on his marketing.

Do elaborate on why you think that is so

(..because I don't)

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue May 23, 2006 4:01 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:
Besides: Many people seem to think that C/R might be worse, because once the company goes out of business, you're f**ked.
Well, dongles are no better. Should I be losing my Logic dongle, there'd be NO WAY to get it replaced, even if the company once doing them still exists. Someone please tell me how that is any better than C/R...

AAS has clearly stated that if they were to go out of business they will provide all registered users with a non C/R copy.

They and other companies are also adding grace periods, so that if your C/R runs out of authorizations, or you change machine, you can still use the software for a week or two in the meanwhile. So no down time and a relaxed amount of time to sort it out.

And there is nothing to physically lose or break like with the dongle. Plus nothing extra to buy and it doesn't take up usb ports, or bandwidth/cpu.

C/R allows companies to decide how many machines the license can be installed on simultaneously. The dongle is one and only one.

Not that I am a fan of C/R, but C/R done right is way better than the dongle. Just goes to show how much I dislike the dongle. Aint no way I would buy one. period.

Elemental Audio been swallowed up...