Please tell me I am stupid. And that I don't know what I'm doing. In fact you wont have to tell me. I already know it's true.
I got this program just a few days ago, and I must say I like it. I like a lot of things about it, the look, layout, functionality, plug-ins, etc etc. This is going to sound sick, but since I got Tracktion, I've been using Audacity more.
An egregious statement like that, which has potential to frustrate multiple readers, deserves a little explanation. Firstly, I can't edit my waves.
I'm sure you'll know what I am talking about. For example, Audacity allows you to highlight a certain portion of the wave and delete it if you so chose. It's very simple. So simple a two year old can do it. I can't seem to be able to do this with Tracktion, as silly of a function as it may seem, and doing a search of "edit" in the manual produced no answers. It seems that I can "delete a portion" of a wave, but this seems nebulous to me and there seems to be a lack of intuitiveness where editing specific portions on waves is concerned. As I said it's a stupid problem but a lot of the work I do now requires a lot of specific copy + paste + delete stuff and I don't want to just edit this stuff in a lone wave editor, it needs to be in a multi-track setup with all of the other tracks (hence the use of Audacity).
I'm also finding it difficult comprehending the idea of making volume envelopes, or generating silence in specific portions of the wave as you can't simply "highlight" any region of the wave file itself. Can someone with experience using Tracktion point me in the right direction, or at least the right portion of the manual? A lot of the stuff in the manual is over my head and I get frustrated and anxious reading through the words. I usually just wind up recording in Audacity and use Tracktion as a goof thing for fun. I desparately would like to make Tracktion my main thing! Any help really, really would be gratefully accepted. Thanks for reading.
Regards,
From
john
Why is Tracktion getting on my nerves?
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 20 May, 2006
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- KVRist
- 155 posts since 4 Apr, 2005
keep working with this program!
it's a nice one but it has its own style for sure....
of course it seems to be my main software as well, on Mac but on PC i am using Reaper.
editing takes time with Tracktion and you have to get used to the new ways of doing things, as a Audacity user from way back i must say its not easy to go into this bigger stuff....
try hanging out in the Raw Materials software forum on this site.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=22
that is how i got through the learning curve
it's a nice one but it has its own style for sure....
of course it seems to be my main software as well, on Mac but on PC i am using Reaper.
editing takes time with Tracktion and you have to get used to the new ways of doing things, as a Audacity user from way back i must say its not easy to go into this bigger stuff....
try hanging out in the Raw Materials software forum on this site.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=22
that is how i got through the learning curve
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- KVRian
- 886 posts since 2 Jun, 2005 from Hawaii
well, tracktion and audacity are quite different things.
not the same as actually deleting part of the wave, but in tracktion, you know you can split clips, right? put the cursor where you want to split, choose the clip, and hit "/". "/" splits clips. then drag one side away and there, you have silence where there was none.
as for making volume envelopes, what do you mean? automating the volume of the track? fading in/out a clip?
i know tracktion doesn't have great wave editing capabilities, but for the stuff you want to do, honestly, i don't know what the problem is.
p.s. you are stupid.
not the same as actually deleting part of the wave, but in tracktion, you know you can split clips, right? put the cursor where you want to split, choose the clip, and hit "/". "/" splits clips. then drag one side away and there, you have silence where there was none.
as for making volume envelopes, what do you mean? automating the volume of the track? fading in/out a clip?
i know tracktion doesn't have great wave editing capabilities, but for the stuff you want to do, honestly, i don't know what the problem is.
if this is true, then you have problems beyond not being able to understand tracktion.A lot of the stuff in the manual is over my head and I get frustrated and anxious reading through the words.
p.s. you are stupid.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Yes, the "/" key is what you're missing. And the curves couldn't be easier.. they're just draggable handles right on the clips...!!
The main problem is that you're expecting a sequencer to behave as an editor. Tracktion specifically won't act as an editor, so you need to approach it as a sequencer. Many of us have an editor on hand (I use Acoustica) for when it's totally necessary.
But things like zones of silence... cutting ("/") and then adjusting the edge of a clip gives you far more options than just highlighting and creating silence, and it's non-destructive.
As for the manual... I've never read it.
Greg
The main problem is that you're expecting a sequencer to behave as an editor. Tracktion specifically won't act as an editor, so you need to approach it as a sequencer. Many of us have an editor on hand (I use Acoustica) for when it's totally necessary.
But things like zones of silence... cutting ("/") and then adjusting the edge of a clip gives you far more options than just highlighting and creating silence, and it's non-destructive.
As for the manual... I've never read it.
Greg
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 20 May, 2006
Ah. I just used the split function and I see how you can remove "pieces" of the wave.
Let me show you a couple of things..
It's a Teac 80-8 8-track and a M15 console made in '77 and '79. These two pieces have been my recording studio for the last 5 years; I long for the simplicity and ease of use that goes with these machines, yet, I can't because the space needed for these tools isn't available so they wait in storage.
I am trying my hardest not to be a putz with digital, but I get frustrated and anxious because I am tired and I want to record ideas which stem from inspiration, and we know inspiration is an ever drying well. I lose that inspiration very quickly when I hit a note on my key board and hear it coming out of the computer speakers in real time AND with an added delay! What am I supposed to do? Or when I hit record and play back and find that my track is out of time with the others, and that I have to move it back into place. These are minor problems but they get in the way of my recording concentration (and still do) as I am not recording simple music and ..these things tend to make me want to pull my hair out. This one is good- having the mic level set to "zero" on my soundcard mixer, running direct off of the L and R outputs on a digital piano (which bypasses the volume slide) and still getting clipping if I hit too hard on the keys! Ahhhhh!
But I thank you for the clip cutting advice. It works perfect! See, what I'm doing is using a lone bass drum wav file from 1976, and a snare drum from 1979...to achieve a really authentic drum sound (and it's working). So what I do is this; record a click track from the metronome on a digital piano, look at the metronome and for example, paste the bass drum wave file on beats "one" and "three", and snare on "two" and "four"...for a basic 4/4 time sig example.
But it will be easier to do this now with your advice. Thanks a bunch.
from John
Let me show you a couple of things..
It's a Teac 80-8 8-track and a M15 console made in '77 and '79. These two pieces have been my recording studio for the last 5 years; I long for the simplicity and ease of use that goes with these machines, yet, I can't because the space needed for these tools isn't available so they wait in storage.
I am trying my hardest not to be a putz with digital, but I get frustrated and anxious because I am tired and I want to record ideas which stem from inspiration, and we know inspiration is an ever drying well. I lose that inspiration very quickly when I hit a note on my key board and hear it coming out of the computer speakers in real time AND with an added delay! What am I supposed to do? Or when I hit record and play back and find that my track is out of time with the others, and that I have to move it back into place. These are minor problems but they get in the way of my recording concentration (and still do) as I am not recording simple music and ..these things tend to make me want to pull my hair out. This one is good- having the mic level set to "zero" on my soundcard mixer, running direct off of the L and R outputs on a digital piano (which bypasses the volume slide) and still getting clipping if I hit too hard on the keys! Ahhhhh!
But I thank you for the clip cutting advice. It works perfect! See, what I'm doing is using a lone bass drum wav file from 1976, and a snare drum from 1979...to achieve a really authentic drum sound (and it's working). So what I do is this; record a click track from the metronome on a digital piano, look at the metronome and for example, paste the bass drum wave file on beats "one" and "three", and snare on "two" and "four"...for a basic 4/4 time sig example.
But it will be easier to do this now with your advice. Thanks a bunch.
from John
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- KVRAF
- 6596 posts since 21 Jun, 2004 from Secret Underground Hideout
i know just what ya mean about the diff with digital. but you gain so much in options. i just take the latency as a given and know i'm gonna have to fix it. when i first learned about dat's, i imagined this day. i'm glad it's here
"Most people who experiment with drugs are not lying in the streets, suffocating on their own vomit. If you want to see some of that, go to the Pub on Saturday night at closing time." ozwest
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Heh! Dude, if you still like old-school tape editing, then there's no better match for you than Tracktion.
Heck, if you REALLY want to add silence without doing the clip split thing, the other way to do it is to automate a volume filter ("filter" = plug-in/built-in tool). Drag one into your clip or use the one that's already on the track. Select automation (The "A" to the right of the track lane) and from the menu pick the vol/pan filter. A line appears. If you make it so that the line goes to the bottom (ie. value of zero), it's as if you had your finger on a mixer fader and at the exact right time, snapped the fader down to zero. Then at the right time, bring it up again.
Heck, you could even "record" the automation and do the slider action with your mouse if you were so inclined.
I much prefer the "/" method, but this gives you another option.
Greg
Heck, if you REALLY want to add silence without doing the clip split thing, the other way to do it is to automate a volume filter ("filter" = plug-in/built-in tool). Drag one into your clip or use the one that's already on the track. Select automation (The "A" to the right of the track lane) and from the menu pick the vol/pan filter. A line appears. If you make it so that the line goes to the bottom (ie. value of zero), it's as if you had your finger on a mixer fader and at the exact right time, snapped the fader down to zero. Then at the right time, bring it up again.
Heck, you could even "record" the automation and do the slider action with your mouse if you were so inclined.
I much prefer the "/" method, but this gives you another option.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 25049 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
CherryFive wrote: I am trying my hardest not to be a putz with digital, but I get frustrated and anxious because I am tired and I want to record ideas which stem from inspiration, and we know inspiration is an ever drying well. I lose that inspiration very quickly when I hit a note on my key board and hear it coming out of the computer speakers in real time AND with an added delay! What am I supposed to do? Or when I hit record and play back and find that my track is out of time with the others, and that I have to move it back into place. These are minor problems but they get in the way of my recording concentration (and still do) as I am not recording simple music and ..these things tend to make me want to pull my hair out.
just a few words:
to me it is obvious, tht you are so used to working the old way that you have a hard time to adjust yourself to the much more comfortable new way. But don't let your frustration spoil it for you. Once you really got used to working within the computer-enviroment you will have found out that it is so much more powerful, inspiring, quick to use and intuitive than hardware could ever be.
It is my firm believe, that if people are telling otherwise it is either because the love to sing the 'those were the good old days' chant, or it is because they haven't realized to the full extent how powerful digital audio workstations nowadays really are (or both).
And if you miss to 'get your hands on it' you can buy a flexible midi-controller for relatively small money.
Cheer up. You'll learn to love it.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 20 May, 2006
I agree, Tracktion is becoming much easier everyday. But I will always hold on to my analog gear and use it soon because something can be said for the sound. And this is NOT to start an analog vs. Digital debate, but clearly, they sound different, particularly "vintage" analog. Think of pink floyd types of sounds. With modern analog 24 track tape machines... they sound just as clear as digital. I guess it's a "vintage" fetish more than an analog one.
But yes, digital is friggin quick.
Here is a song I wrote/recorded just using '70s gear. Even if you don't like the sound you at least can say it sounds "different" than digital (not implying it is superior).
http://octavecat.homestead.com/Ornery-Windows_2005.mp3
But yes, digital is friggin quick.
Here is a song I wrote/recorded just using '70s gear. Even if you don't like the sound you at least can say it sounds "different" than digital (not implying it is superior).
http://octavecat.homestead.com/Ornery-Windows_2005.mp3
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- KVRAF
- 3441 posts since 15 Mar, 2003
Stop trying to make one tool behave like another.
Tracktion issn't Audacity so why expect it to work the same way.
The Tracktion manual is so short. Why not read it?
Learn how to use the computer and sequencer before expecting it to work quikly and as smoothly as your old way of doing things.
Did you learn your mixing console and tape deck instantly?
Tracktion issn't Audacity so why expect it to work the same way.
The Tracktion manual is so short. Why not read it?
Learn how to use the computer and sequencer before expecting it to work quikly and as smoothly as your old way of doing things.
Did you learn your mixing console and tape deck instantly?
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- KVRian
- 1120 posts since 21 Jul, 2004
Are you still getting a delay when you hit a note on your keyboard? You won't have latency issues if you're using a good audio interface with ASIO drivers. If any of those terms are at all unfamiliar to you, you have some research to do (and some shopping) and some very pleasant suprises in store. Ask more questions!
You should not experience ANY audible delay between hitting a key and hearing your sound. Recorded tracks should all line up perfectly without you're having to do anything, unless you're using outboard effects, which at this point I doubt you are.
When you get your system set up properly, getting ideas down quickly will become second nature.
Good luck!
You should not experience ANY audible delay between hitting a key and hearing your sound. Recorded tracks should all line up perfectly without you're having to do anything, unless you're using outboard effects, which at this point I doubt you are.
When you get your system set up properly, getting ideas down quickly will become second nature.
Good luck!
Music is something you DO. Spend time, not money.
http://www.myspace.com/skipkent
http://soundcloud.com/skipkent
http://www.myspace.com/skipkent
http://soundcloud.com/skipkent
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 20 May, 2006
Thanks for all of the replies. All really good points.
I did ask a question in the setup forum a few days ago, or yesterday, can't remember
I'm kind of a digital moron, so I need help with very basic and simple things.
Here it is;
Hello!
I just recently put the ASIO 4 ALL driver in my Tracktion 2 program and it works fine, I can play my keyboards with no latency issues, however, when I run out of my headphones so I can record late at night, my "volume control" is completely taken away.
If I turn up the master volume, I hear the delay combined with my real-time signal, and if I turn the master volume down, I still hear my keys (the ASIO thing is apparently bypassing the "master" volume. Not such a "master" anymore). The only way I deal with this in the day is by turning down the analog pot on the speakers themselves.
The problem is I record late at night sometimes so I need to use headphones, but I have zero volume control and they BLAST through my headphones. Why can't I control my volume when I'm using ASIO4ALL? On my "creative" sound card, the "input monitor" slide is grey, and disabled. The volume slide is "fixed" at about 50% volume. If I could just turn this slide down, I could record at night without blowing my ears. Why wont it let me control this slide? Any ideas?
Thanks a heck of a lot.
John
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137328
I did ask a question in the setup forum a few days ago, or yesterday, can't remember
I'm kind of a digital moron, so I need help with very basic and simple things.
Here it is;
Hello!
I just recently put the ASIO 4 ALL driver in my Tracktion 2 program and it works fine, I can play my keyboards with no latency issues, however, when I run out of my headphones so I can record late at night, my "volume control" is completely taken away.
If I turn up the master volume, I hear the delay combined with my real-time signal, and if I turn the master volume down, I still hear my keys (the ASIO thing is apparently bypassing the "master" volume. Not such a "master" anymore). The only way I deal with this in the day is by turning down the analog pot on the speakers themselves.
The problem is I record late at night sometimes so I need to use headphones, but I have zero volume control and they BLAST through my headphones. Why can't I control my volume when I'm using ASIO4ALL? On my "creative" sound card, the "input monitor" slide is grey, and disabled. The volume slide is "fixed" at about 50% volume. If I could just turn this slide down, I could record at night without blowing my ears. Why wont it let me control this slide? Any ideas?
Thanks a heck of a lot.
John
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137328
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
I hate to be one of the "spend some more money" kinds of people, but a couple of hundred bucks could get you an interface that would come with its own ASIO drivers, would have some sort of (probably limited but still useful) host appplication with it, and which would give you much better D/A converters than your Creative card.
This, this, and
this would all work much better than what you are running now.
I mean, you sound like you know what you are doing musically. It would definitely be worth it to pick up something like this, or perhaps even spend a bit more and get one with 8 inputs and even better converters.
This, this, and
this would all work much better than what you are running now.
I mean, you sound like you know what you are doing musically. It would definitely be worth it to pick up something like this, or perhaps even spend a bit more and get one with 8 inputs and even better converters.
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- KVRAF
- 4908 posts since 10 Aug, 2004 from Colorado Springs
Cherry5,
Sounds tedious what you are doing cutting/pasting onto beats. Here's an alternative that Tracktion allows - take those snare and bass drum snippets, and simply load them into Tracktion's sampler. Then drop midi notes on those beats. It's perfect for what you are trying to do.
Also, the Tracktion forum at KVR is under 'Raw Material Software' - you'll get more people defending Tracktion there and willing to give their left arm to help you use it.
I actually find workflow in Tracktion to match the way I think just about perfectly; which some may consider slightly twisted - but nothing is easier for me.
If you liked your old reel-reel, just think of the '/' key as a the little knife on your splicing rig. Put the cursor where you want to split, and cut away. Works like a charm and very fast.
Volume automation is also very very easy once you click on the little 'A' in the upper right corner of the clip.
Like others have said, read the manual. At very minimum, read the keyboard shortcut guide - You'll find 90% of your initial questions answered there.
-Scott
Sounds tedious what you are doing cutting/pasting onto beats. Here's an alternative that Tracktion allows - take those snare and bass drum snippets, and simply load them into Tracktion's sampler. Then drop midi notes on those beats. It's perfect for what you are trying to do.
Also, the Tracktion forum at KVR is under 'Raw Material Software' - you'll get more people defending Tracktion there and willing to give their left arm to help you use it.
I actually find workflow in Tracktion to match the way I think just about perfectly; which some may consider slightly twisted - but nothing is easier for me.
If you liked your old reel-reel, just think of the '/' key as a the little knife on your splicing rig. Put the cursor where you want to split, and cut away. Works like a charm and very fast.
Volume automation is also very very easy once you click on the little 'A' in the upper right corner of the clip.
Like others have said, read the manual. At very minimum, read the keyboard shortcut guide - You'll find 90% of your initial questions answered there.
-Scott
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- KVRAF
- 4345 posts since 8 Mar, 2005
Along the lines of what Herodotus said, i'd like to add Emu 0404 to the list. Simply cant be beat for the price.
And i can get 5ms latency when working in guru standalone, sometimes 2ms latency if i have just one engine. And while mixing in sonar, i do 20ms latency which gives me smooooth performance with no hiccups whatsoever. And this is with 50 tracks and more with 9-10 VST instruments all running in a celeron 2.8 ghz machine with 512 mb ram.
And i can get 5ms latency when working in guru standalone, sometimes 2ms latency if i have just one engine. And while mixing in sonar, i do 20ms latency which gives me smooooth performance with no hiccups whatsoever. And this is with 50 tracks and more with 9-10 VST instruments all running in a celeron 2.8 ghz machine with 512 mb ram.