KVR Audio

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:41 pm

To claim that there are just two options -- emulate traditional orchestral instruments or come up with entirely new sounds and synthesis methods -- is what's known as a "false dichotomy" or maybe "excluded middle." It's akin to asking someone "Would you rather eat ice cream or let me pound on your head with a hammer?" There ARE other options, y'know.

Or, to look at the issue from another angle, who cares if someone's making a product that does things you don't want? Someone else is writing out there on the fringe, so use their synth and let those of us who happen to like the more traditional stuff enjoy it. IOW, why whine that Chevy makes pick-up trucks when you could just buy a car from them or some other company, or a motorcycle, or a SUV (if you must)?

Yes, it really is that simple.

stevieb19 wrote:If it stimulates talent in whatever form I think it is a good thing.

Bingo.

And to arwa02, hello! Things get better than this.

shanecgriffo · Post by **shanecgriffo** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:45 pm

is it made with synth-edit haha..haha

haha .. hmm sorry

arwa02 · Post by **arwa02** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:47 pm

stevieb19 wrote:Checked back and Sonarman is quite right

Welcome arwa02 to kvr.

I would not normally be quite so worried but I believe some of our members invited you to comment on the forum and then promptly ignored you.

Normally, I browse KVR regularly, I just haven't had time for anything but answering mails, pm:s and replies since I made that NS post, so I missed this thread.

Don't ask me how.

stevieb19 · Post by **stevieb19** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:53 pm

arwa02 wrote:
stevieb19 wrote:Checked back and Sonarman is quite right

Welcome arwa02 to kvr.

I would not normally be quite so worried but I believe some of our members invited you to comment on the forum and then promptly ignored you.
Normally, I browse KVR regularly, I just haven't had time for anything but answering mails, pm:s and replies since I made that NS post, so I missed this thread.

Don't ask me how.

Missed the thread on your own product

Seriously though the title of the thread is somewhat ambiguous.

When may we expect GUI or a demo please as I for one am really looking forward to seeing this in al it's glory

arwa02 · Post by **arwa02** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:54 pm

shanecgriffo wrote:so the way that you are acheiving expression, is it something that we havent seen before?

Not at all. The user provides the expression.

ludwig · Post by **ludwig** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:09 pm

Can't wait to have a playable demo of this product. An maybe than i have to buy a wind controller (i can play the flute, so using a wind controller shouldn't be a problem).

DWb · Post by **DWb** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:09 pm

Meffy wrote:
stevieb19 wrote:If it stimulates talent in whatever form I think it is a good thing.
Bingo.

Yep.

And to arwa02, hello! Things get better than this.

Yep. Sometimes we have Synthedit r0XX0rs! No! Synthedit suXX0rs arguments, sometimes we have hip hop r0XX0rs! No! Hip hop suXX0rs arguments, sometimes we...

kevink · Post by **kevink** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:09 pm

I finally got around to listening to the demo. Nice work. I agree with the comment that the vibrato is the weakest point in a lot of the demos - it really jumped out at me with the oboe, for example. It seems as if the brass instruments come out best, followed by the reeds, followed by the double reeds, which sort-of makes sense if you think about the relative complexity of the physics involved.

Could you please confirm how the demos were recorded? I mean, were they played "live" with a wind controller, or hand-programmed/massaged outside real time? If those parts could be played in real time by a competent player with a wind controller, you'd have a product with a definite market niche - getting those sorts of varied articulations out of a sampler is possible, but quite tedious, and people working on arrangements who would rather think about the parts than micromanage MIDI parameters could find your instrument pretty compelling.

djsubject · Post by **djsubject** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm

arwa02 wrote:
sonarman wrote:arwa02 - Congratulations on getting the most unwelcoming welcome in KVR history.
Are you really from Sweden?
Sweden is a real country!

i like you

Subz

arwa02 · Post by **arwa02** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:43 pm

kevink wrote:I finally got around to listening to the demo. Nice work. I agree with the comment that the vibrato is the weakest point in a lot of the demos - it really jumped out at me with the oboe, for example. It seems as if the brass instruments come out best, followed by the reeds, followed by the double reeds, which sort-of makes sense if you think about the relative complexity of the physics involved.

Could you please confirm how the demos were recorded? I mean, were they played "live" with a wind controller, or hand-programmed/massaged outside real time? If those parts could be played in real time by a competent player with a wind controller, you'd have a product with a definite market niche - getting those sorts of varied articulations out of a sampler is possible, but quite tedious, and people working on arrangements who would rather think about the parts than micromanage MIDI parameters could find your instrument pretty compelling.

They were recorded live with a BC3 breath controller and a standard midi keyboard, but I'm definitely not a competent wind player. I changed some wrong notes, but otherwise no tweaking (I did not tweak any of the breath data). If you use a breath/wind controller with it you really cannot go wrong, because bad playing won't make it sound like a synth, only like a bad performance. With very static programming it will sound mechanical, naturally, because you told it to.

Paul Gregor · Post by **Paul Gregor** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:10 pm

Gregjazz · Post by **Gregjazz** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:18 pm

arwa02 wrote: Lots of posts about breath controllers. Well, you have to make a choice. Either you provide the musical expression yourself, or you use a sample library with a fixed expression. If you're only going to use a single note, buy a library (it IS a recording after all). If you also want to do custom melodies or any sort of musical flow, you'll have to provide the expression no matter what tools you're using. The breath controller is just a tool to provide real time expression to any synth or sample library. My synth has nothing to do with it.

First of all, welcome to the KVR community! I'm glad you showed up to answer some questions and reply to comments.

I agree, there are sample libraries that have "fixed" expression ingrained in the samples themselves. Then there are sample libraries that provide you very sterile oneshots. The art of sampling lies in attaining a flexibility of expression in the samples. I think a really great example of good sampling is Garritan's Stradivari Solo Violin. The samples are excellent themselves, but technology backs the samples to provide more realism -- for example, their "sonic morphing" technology. The violin has several velocity layers, but using this technology, the velocity layers are morphed to get any velocity layer between the sampled ones. The instrument was designed to be played expressively in real-time, as the Garritan website states. Check out the "Meditation" video to see someone play the Stradivari violin real-time and getting a lot of expression... using a keyboard!

I know this sounds like an advertisement for the sample library, but I just wanted to give you an example of samples with good expression.

Also, thank you for clearing it up about the final price of your project and the amount of instruments encompassed.

P.S. The trumpet sounds fantastic! You might want to watch those loud notes, though, they sound a little bit off (like a trumpet played through a fan). But definitely a very convincing trumpet!!

Tony Ostinato · Post by **Tony Ostinato** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:09 am

Hi,

I'm totally impressed. I'm not sure if you heard any of the wx5 demos i did using ziokiller's (guido) milestone but if at all possible id love to beta test this. I've got like 15 years experience with wind controller both onstage and in the studio and have worked for fairlight and others. I use a vl70m but would love something as good in a vsti and this sounds like it.

thanks

Rob Stowell · Post by **Rob Stowell** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:39 am

an advance group buy might be a good stimulus to development?

kevink · Post by **kevink** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:21 am

Tony Ostinato wrote:I'm totally impressed. I'm not sure if you heard any of the wx5 demos i did using ziokiller's (guido) milestone but if at all possible id love to beta test this. I've got like 15 years experience with wind controller both onstage and in the studio and have worked for fairlight and others. I use a vl70m but would love something as good in a vsti and this sounds like it.

Glad you caught this thread, Tony. I had actually written a suggestion to the author that he contact you as a beta tester, but decided it was presumptuous and deleted it!

What the !!! Has anyone even seen this!!??